Prom 41: Rimsky-Korsakov, Rachmaninov, Lyadov & Glazunov - 17.08.19

[LeMartinPecheur]

First time I've enjoyed a Glazunov symphony. Nay, first time I've even noticed a Glazunov symphony

[edashtav]

I agree that Penny Gore is one of the presenters who are acting as leaven and raising the average standard of Continuity at the Proms.

I enjoyed the second half because of the LPO's fine playing and the sturdy interpretations of lesser known scores by Vladimir Jurowski who always demonstrates an inclusive attitude to repertoire.

I don't want to be a little Britisher but when I see the healthy pile of Russian / Soviet symphonies programmed this year at the Proms and compare it to the poverty of such pieces from the GB at a Festival organised by the British Broadcasting Corporation, I wonder about the latter's aims and values.

[richardfinegold]

It’s good to see a Glazunov Symphony get dusted off and Jurowski is outstanding in Russian Music. I got to hear most of this on the iplayer driving in to work Saturday. There isn’t a masterpiece lurking in any of his output but one can admire the craftsmanship. Like Alpine I didn’t realize that there was an “original version” of Rach 1 PC.
If Richard Strauss self described as a “First Rate Second Rate Composer “ what does that make Glazunov? Third or Fourth Rate?

[BBMmk2]

It’s good to see a Glazunov Symphony get dusted off and Jurowski is outstanding in Russian Music. I got to hear most of this on the iplayer driving in to work Saturday. There isn’t a masterpiece lurking in any of his output but one can admire the craftsmanship. Like Alpine I didn’t realize that there was an “original version” of Rach 1 PC.
If Richard Strauss self described as a “First Rate Second Rate Composer “ what does that make Glazunov? Third or Fourth Rate?

Me neither!

Catching up now.

[Edgy 2]

I don't want to be a little Britisher but when I see the healthy pile of Russian / Soviet symphonies programmed this year at the Proms and compare it to the poverty of such pieces from the GB at a Festival organised by the British Broadcasting Corporation, I wonder about the latter's aims and values.

As much as I adore Russian Symphonies I am as puzzled as you are

[teamsaint]

I agree that Penny Gore is one of the presenters who are acting as leaven and raising the average standard of Continuity at the Proms.

I enjoyed the second half because of the LPO's fine playing and the sturdy interpretations of lesser known scores by Vladimir Jurowski who always demonstrates an inclusive attitude to repertoire.

I don't want to be a little Britisher but when I see the healthy pile of Russian / Soviet symphonies programmed this year at the Proms and compare it to the poverty of such pieces from the GB at a Festival organised by the British Broadcasting Corporation, I wonder about the latter's aims and values.

One might usefully play “ Fantasy American Proms” and wonder what the programmes for such a thing might look like.

( Probably a game fo the long winter evenings though.....)

[Suffolkcoastal]

I went last night. I have a major soft spot for Glazunov. The Symphony came off very well in the hall, especially the expressive slow movement and was well played. Jurowski brought out the rhythmic aspects of all the pieces, though perhaps pushed the finale a bit too much, so that the rhythmic articulation wasn't as clear as it could be, though the RAH acoustics don't help. The Liadov works were done very well, with plenty of colour & clarity, especially Kikimora. As for the Rachmaninov PC No 1, he was definitely wise to considerably revise it, the original version is formally weak and some of the material is poor and doesn't come off. Sometimes a composer's first thoughts are worth reviving and are to be preferred, in this case it is best kept as an occasional curiosity as it doesn't do Rachmaninov any favours.

[Dave2002]

My seat in the hall was, apparently, the best I could obtain in the end. It was really not good - in one of the Loggia boxes, with a poor view of the platform. I wished I'd ordered the seat in the stalls which was perhaps the last available the day before. Consequently I don't think this concert had the impact it might have presented elsewhere in the hall.

The piece I really wanted to hear was the Glazunov symphony. The other pieces were pleasant enough. The Rachmaninov has been discussed above - probably a weaker version of a concerto I really don't know well at all. The programme notes made much of the fact that Liadov was thought to have promise, but never produced a really large scale work, though made pleas that the smaller works are still worth hearing. Sadly, I'm starting to disagree wtih that view - perhaps Liadov's music should be allowed to fade into obscurity. I almost forgot to mention Rimsky's Mlada - which had some merits, but was not earth shattering - another pleasant experience, but only a slightly memorable one. Rimsky wrote some more significant pieces than this one.

Despite the acoustic and line of sight problems mentioned, I felt that listening in the hall was in many ways a better experience for the symphony than iistening to CDs or downloads. I wanted to hear how a live performance in a concert hall would sound, though there were few real surprises. The rather odd opening with the brass which I could barely believe when I first heard it in poor quality mp3 recordings conducted by Fedoseyev still sounds strange - though I've come to like it. The tuba gets a part right at the start. Some of the woodwind playing was beautiful in the first movement - I noted the flute(s) particularly. The scherzo was light and airy, a really lovely movement, which I think was encored at its first performance. The slow movement seemed shorter than I remember it. The finale was more of a surprise to me, as Jurowski and the LPO made it sound more fun and festive than some more banal versions available on CD. I remember a simlar feeling of surprise many years ago in a performance of Tchaikovsky 4 - with Rhozdestvensky and a Russian orchestra at the Proms - where the last movement really felt as though it was about people enjoying themselves, rather than a hectic scramble which maybe it sometimes does.

As far as I could tell, most of the audience seemed to like the Glazunov, though I doubt whether many had heard it before. I met someone afterwards who thought it was splendid. My views have perhaps not changed much. The Glazunov symphonies do deserve occasional outings. Looking at the programme notes the only symphonies performed at the Proms have been the 5th and 6th, with neither having had many performances over the years. Other orchestras have played one or two more recently - though not at the Proms. Jurowski included one in the LPO season not too long ago, and I think the RLPO did one fairly recently. The chances of hearing all 8 of the completed symphonies in the UK in live performances in my lifetime seem remote, which is a shame, though the same could be said of other works, such as Arriaga's symphony, and also as has been noted here, some of the symphonies by British composers.

One thing which might really count against Glazunov is the sheer size of the orchestra used - which would presumably make performances more expensive. Add to that the strange textures, and effects, and perhaps sometimes "needless" repetition, and lack of contrasting material in some movements which make one wonder whether the composer really had anything to say, and whether many audiences really want to hear any of his output, and one wonders if there's much hope of future live performances. I hope there is, and that maybe I'll get to hear some more of these works in the future, but I wouldn't want to have concert performances every week.

LIstening on CD, I have found it not unpleasant to listen to two or three Glazunov symphonies one after the other. There is precedent at the Proms for having several symphonies by one composer in one programme - for example RVW a few years ago. Regarding frequency of performances, there are other works I have heard once, and would perhaps like to hear again, but not necessarily every week, month or even year. Schoenberg's Gurrelieder springs to mind, but there are others, though sadly even some works by Mozart and Haydn are now becoming difficult to experience in concert halls.

After hearing this I would particularly like to hear Glazunov's 4th, 6th, 7th and 8th symphony performed live, hopefully with as much enthusiasm and verve as Saturday's rendition of the 5th.

[edashtav]

Interesting and perceptive reviews from the RAH by Suffie and Dave: many thanks.

[cloughie]

My seat in the hall was, apparently, the best I could obtain in the end. It was really not good - in one of the Loggia boxes, with a poor view of the platform. I wished I'd ordered the seat in the stalls which was perhaps the last available the day before. Consequently I don't think this concert had the impact it might have presented elsewhere in the hall.

The piece I really wanted to hear was the Glazunov symphony. The other pieces were pleasant enough. The Rachmaninov has been discussed above - probably a weaker version of a concerto I really don't know well at all. The programme notes made much of the fact that Liadov was thought to have promise, but never produced a really large scale work, though made pleas that the smaller works are still worth hearing. Sadly, I'm starting to disagree wtih that view - perhaps Liadov's music should be allowed to fade into obscurity. I almost forgot to mention Rimsky's Mlada - which had some merits, but was not earth shattering - another pleasant experience, but only a slightly memorable one. Rimsky wrote some more significant pieces than this one.

Despite the acoustic and line of sight problems mentioned, I felt that listening in the hall was in many ways a better experience for the symphony than iistening to CDs or downloads. I wanted to hear how a live performance in a concert hall would sound, though there were few real surprises. The rather odd opening with the brass which I could barely believe when I first heard it in poor quality mp3 recordings conducted by Fedoseyev still sounds strange - though I've come to like it. The tuba gets a part right at the start. Some of the woodwind playing was beautiful in the first movement - I noted the flute(s) particularly. The scherzo was light and airy, a really lovely movement, which I think was encored at its first performance. The slow movement seemed shorter than I remember it. The finale was more of a surprise to me, as Jurowski and the LPO made it sound more fun and festive than some more banal versions available on CD. I remember a simlar feeling of surprise many years ago in a performance of Tchaikovsky 4 - with Rhozdestvensky and a Russian orchestra at the Proms - where the last movement really felt as though it was about people enjoying themselves, rather than a hectic scramble which maybe it sometimes does.

As far as I could tell, most of the audience seemed to like the Glazunov, though I doubt whether many had heard it before. I met someone afterwards who thought it was splendid. My views have perhaps not changed much. The Glazunov symphonies do deserve occasional outings. Looking at the programme notes the only symphonies performed at the Proms have been the 5th and 6th, with neither having had many performances over the years. Other orchestras have played one or two more recently - though not at the Proms. Jurowski included one in the LPO season not too long ago, and I think the RLPO did one fairly recently. The chances of hearing all 8 of the completed symphonies in the UK in live performances in my lifetime seem remote, which is a shame, though the same could be said of other works, such as Arriaga's symphony, and also as has been noted here, some of the symphonies by British composers.

One thing which might really count against Glazunov is the sheer size of the orchestra used - which would presumably make performances more expensive. Add to that the strange textures, and effects, and perhaps sometimes "needless" repetition, and lack of contrasting material in some movements which make one wonder whether the composer really had anything to say, and whether many audiences really want to hear any of his output, and one wonders if there's much hope of future live performances. I hope there is, and that maybe I'll get to hear some more of these works in the future, but I wouldn't want to have concert performances every week.

LIstening on CD, I have found it not unpleasant to listen to two or three Glazunov symphonies one after the other. There is precedent at the Proms for having several symphonies by one composer in one programme - for example RVW a few years ago. Regarding frequency of performances, there are other works I have heard once, and would perhaps like to hear again, but not necessarily every week, month or even year. Schoenberg's Gurrelieder springs to mind, but there are others, though sadly even some works by Mozart and Haydn are now becoming difficult to experience in concert halls.

After hearing this I would particularly like to hear Glazunov's 4th, 6th, 7th and 8th symphony performed live, hopefully with as much enthusiasm and verve as Saturday's rendition of the 5th.

Totally disagree with you about Liadov - they are lovely pieces.

[Rolmill]

...The chances of hearing...Arriaga's symphony...[in the UK]...[seem remote]...

Never one to pass up an opportunity for a shameless plug: Forest Row Orchestra in Forest Row village hall (East Sussex), Saturday 1st Feb 2020, concert starts at 11.00am!

I agree that the chances of a professional orchestra programming it nowadays are slight, though, which is a shame - it’s a delightful piece.

Apologies for OT intrusion, couldn’t resist the open goal

[cloughie]

Never one to pass up an opportunity for a shameless plug: Forest Row Orchestra in Forest Row village hall (East Sussex), Saturday 1st Feb 2020, concert starts at 11.00am!

I agree that the chances of a professional orchestra programming it nowadays are slight, though, which is a shame - it’s a delightful piece.

Apologies for OT intrusion, couldn’t resist the open goal

Many a striker would go OtT.

[Dave2002]

Totally disagree with you about Liadov - they are lovely pieces.

Chacun ...

bws dave

PS: maybe I'll try listening again, but from CDs/downloads/streams.

[Dave2002]

Never one to pass up an opportunity for a shameless plug: Forest Row Orchestra in Forest Row village hall (East Sussex), Saturday 1st Feb 2020, concert starts at 11.00am!

I agree that the chances of a professional orchestra programming it nowadays are slight, though, which is a shame - it’s a delightful piece.

Apologies for OT intrusion, couldn’t resist the open goal

Do you have a flyer for that concert? Probably won't be able to get to it, but if I know the details - most of which you've already given - I could make the effort if I'm in the area. Have you noticed many other performances of that Arriaga work - it used to come round on R3 from time to time.

[Rolmill]

Do you have a flyer for that concert? Probably won't be able to get to it, but if I know the details - most of which you've already given - I could make the effort if I'm in the area. Have you noticed many other performances of that Arriaga work - it used to come round on R3 from time to time.

Sorry Dave, posters won’t be available until much nearer the time. And I wouldn’t want to encourage false hopes - we’re a (very) amateur orchestra, so the performance will be considerably less than pro quality, though hopefully at at least recognisable!

I don’t think I’ve ever noticed a concert performance on R3, though I think recordings have been played (Mackerras on Hyperion probably). I certainly haven’t seen it on concert programmes either locally or in London.