Prom 44: Belshazzar’s Feast - 20.08.19

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  • Ein Heldenleben
    Full Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 7054

    #16
    Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
    No-one listening? I'm in the hall and Ameriques was absolutely stunning.

    What with Koechlin's 'monkey scherzo', Ameriques and 'Thou art weighed in the balance' is Rattle making a statement here?
    The Ameriques was stunning in the relay as well . Quite exceptional orchestral playing and beautifully balanced ...

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    • Alison
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 6484

      #17
      Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
      The Ameriques was stunning in the relay as well . Quite exceptional orchestral playing and beautifully balanced ...

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      • Bryn
        Banned
        • Mar 2007
        • 24688

        #18
        The Vaeèse and Walton are now available in binaural mix at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07glw4s . No Koechlin there, however.

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        • edashtav
          Full Member
          • Jul 2012
          • 3673

          #19
          Originally posted by Bryn View Post
          The Vaeèse and Walton are now available in binaural mix at https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07glw4s . No Koechlin there, however.
          I wonder who threw the monkey wrench, Bryn?

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          • makropulos
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 1683

            #20
            I watched the whole concert on BBC Four tonight. I can see why those who were present thought it pretty stunning –it came over that way on the telly too, I thought. Koechlin and Varèse were superb. Belshazzar was incredibly exhilarating though the choir lacked the last ounce of attack in places. But Finlay was superb, the orchestra was sparkling and Rattle caught all its exuberance in a way that slightly eluded him twenty-odd years ago when I last heard him conduct it. For me, at least, a vastly enjoyable concert.

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            • Boilk
              Full Member
              • Dec 2010
              • 976

              #21
              Originally posted by Heldenleben View Post
              The Ameriques was stunning in the relay as well . Quite exceptional orchestral playing and beautifully balanced ...
              Sometmes the sheer daring/thrill of a piece can somewhat expunge debate of how musically successful a work might really be. With the volume "turned up to 11" for much of this work, perhaps the undeniable sonic impact makes for too much of a guilty pleasure? Watching it on BBC Four underscored my view that Amériques is the lesser orchestral sibling of the later Arcana, which IMHO hangs together more succesfully. It was when Arcana was being finished, around 1927, that Varèse took to revising the earlier work, although I've not seen anything about changing the notes, only reducing the forces.

              Update: I see this Proms performance is already on YouTube.
              Last edited by Boilk; 28-08-19, 00:02.

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              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                #22
                Originally posted by Boilk View Post
                . . . It was when Arcana was being finished, around 1927, that Varèse took to revising the earlier work, although I've not seen anything about changing the notes, only reducing the forces. . . .
                As Christopher Lyndon-Gee points out in his notes for the Naxos recording, " . . . as well as the sharp perspective of the offstage 'banda', many of the more intimate, chamber music-like passages were excised, lessening the impact of the famous, overpowering "funeral march" . . . ". For a more detailed discussion of the changes, see Dieter A. Nanz, Edgard Varese: Die Orchesterwerke (Berlin: Lucas, 2003), pp. 69-80, or more briefly and in English, Malcolm MacDonald, Varese: Astronomer in Sound (London: Kahn & Averill, 2003), pp. 103-07.
                Having long been familiar with both the revised and original versions, the changes in the musical content were starkly clear, to my ears, in this Proms performance.

                Comment

                • Boilk
                  Full Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 976

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                  As Christopher Lyndon-Gee points out in his notes for the Naxos recording, " . . . as well as the sharp perspective of the offstage 'banda', many of the more intimate, chamber music-like passages were excised, lessening the impact of the famous, overpowering "funeral march" . . . ". For a more detailed discussion of the changes, see Dieter A. Nanz, Edgard Varese: Die Orchesterwerke (Berlin: Lucas, 2003), pp. 69-80, or more briefly and in English, Malcolm MacDonald, Varese: Astronomer in Sound (London: Kahn & Averill, 2003), pp. 103-07.
                  Having long been familiar with both the revised and original versions, the changes in the musical content were starkly clear, to my ears, in this Proms performance.
                  Thanks Bryn. Both of my recordings (plus this performance) are the 1921 version. Interesting, given it's usually revised versions of works that gain the greater popularity (especially given the reduced percussion troupe for this work's revision).

                  Comment

                  • Bryn
                    Banned
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 24688

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Boilk View Post
                    Thanks Bryn. Both of my recordings (plus this performance) are the 1921 version. Interesting, given it's usually revised versions of works that gain the greater popularity (especially given the reduced percussion troupe for this work's revision).
                    Well, until Chou Wen Chung edited the original version for performance in association with the Decca/Chailly 'complete' Varèse survey, the original had only had, IIRC, two performances, both in America, before he revised it for its European premiere, the revised edition was all that was available to perform. The original was not published during the composer's lifetime. The revision was partly conditioned by the lack of sufficient forces available for the European premiere.

                    By the way, though the playing is not up to the standard of the later Chailly survey, that less complete one under Nagano's baton does offer a decent performance of the revised Ameriques, plus the original Paris taped interpolations, rather than the later Columbia Princetown versions which are the usual choice.

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                    • bluestateprommer
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 3024

                      #25
                      Finally caught up with this LSO/SSR Prom. Going in reverse order, I can see where some people had reservations about Rattle's reading of Belshazzar's Feast, where he really put the pedal to the metal in the faster passages, and not quite to fully effective effect, at least to me. The choirs coped quite well with those fast tempi in those moments. Agree that Gerald Finley was excellent. In fairness to SSR, in the slower and more moderate tempi moments, things went well. Perhaps my reaction betrays a subliminal bias based on recording, where the Belshazzar's Feast recording with which I "grew up" with featured an earlier incarnation of the LSO, namely, of course, Previn and John Shirley-Quirk. Here, my "Prom of two halves" evaluation of the 2015 First Night flipped a bit here, where Oramo's Belshazzar's Feast captured all its rock 'em, sock 'em razzle-dazzle without overly pushing the pace as Rattle did.

                      The first half with the Koechlin and Varese was outstanding. Koechlin's Les Bandars-Log was a new discovery for me, and SSR and the LSO captured its snark and satire well. (The one quibble was Petroc's odd pronunciation of the 's' in the French definite article "Les", where normally the 's' is silent unless the next word after "Les" begins with a vowel. Sorry, but I took French in high school. ) It would have been great to experience Ameriques live in the hall, and in the original version at that, as I've only heard it live but once, with Boulez in Chicago over 2 decades ago, which was probably the revised version.

                      Still, even with reservations about the Walton, the fact that this Prom was packed out, especially given the relatively arcane (multi-level pun not intended, mostly) works on the first half, is great to know. If this is a case of "whatever Simon wants, Simon gets", that's fine by me.

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                      • LMcD
                        Full Member
                        • Sep 2017
                        • 8761

                        #26
                        I think it's fair to assume that, as is so often the case, Rattle was the big draw. Not that this is a bad thing if it puts bums on seats and people get to hear performances of pieces previously unknown to them.

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