Prom 47: Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra - 23.08.19

[Ein Heldenleben]

it’s a very meticulously prepared edition with plenty of up bow and down bow markings in the strings. Not sure following the score was such a good idea : you tend to get bogged down in detail . Particularly with Bruckner I find myself asking why he put those bars in... maybe that bit could be pruned . Yes heresy,
To me the adagio lost quite a bit of pulse and I couldn’t hear the harps ....

[Bryn]

And in that edition they are using I am lost. Crikey - seems to me to have lost a lot of its mightiness and seems to be playing around in the foothills with irrelevancies. And it's so PLODDING in tempi.

Hey ho! We hear and learn.

Never heard Haitink using this edition either. Did he ever?


Glad Jochum doesn't use that edition on my set.

Really? I thought Jochum always used the 1890 version, ed Nowak.

[jayne lee wilson]

And in that edition they are using I am lost. Crikey - seems to me to have lost a lot of its mightiness and seems to be playing around in the foothills with irrelevancies. And it's so PLODDING in tempi.

Hey ho! We hear and learn.

Never heard Haitink using this edition either. Did he ever?

Glad Jochum doesn't use that edition on my set.

They did use both, but Haitink almost always Haas, Jochum almost always Nowak.......

Listings here...

https://www.abruckner.com/recordings/Jochum/Eugen

The finale confirmed Nowak tonight (no conductor emendations, AFAI could hear.). So I missed that cherished finale passage....

Fascinating 8th from Nelsons, very beautiful orchestrally - full, warm, mellow but detailed with it.... very carefully thought through reading, often dynamically restrained, to some extent emphasising the string-led lyrical qualities - still, a magnificent final coda...

More later I hope - all passion spent now.......

[Alison]

Haitink a late convert to Nowak.

[edashtav]

I shan't say too much for I felt very conflicted: great detail, but the architecture was undermined. A curate's egg of a performance.i

[Bryn]

They did use both, but Haitink almost always Haas, Jochum almost always Nowak.......

Listings here...

https://www.abruckner.com/recordings/Jochum/Eugen

The finale confirmed Nowak tonight (no conductor emendations, AFAI could hear.). So I missed that cherished finale passage....

Fascinating 8th from Nelsons, very beautiful orchestrally - full, warm, mellow but detailed with it.... very carefully thought through reading, often dynamically restrained, to some extent emphasising the string-led lyrical qualities - still, a magnificent final coda...

More later I hope - all passion spent now.......

Ah. I had forgotten Jochum had to use Haas until Nowak produced his edition.

[Darkbloom]

I found this performance oddly unsatisfying. I kept hoping it would take wing for me but it never quite did.

Nelsons has put on a lot off weight since I last saw him. For a fairly young man still, to see him lumbering to the podium tonight was quite a shock.

[jayne lee wilson]

Ah. I had forgotten Jochum had to use Haas until Nowak produced his edition.

Yes - and Knappertsbusch, Andreae, Furtwangler and others used the first publication of 1892 (ed Lienau etc) extensively, although Furtwangler used his own version (broadly based on Haas, which he disliked) earlier on.
1892 is close to the Nowak 1890, though still with fascinating differences. Kna (always the most bloody-mindedly individual of Brucknerians) stuck to 1892 even after the Nowak appeared.

[jayne lee wilson]

PROM 47/II BRUCKNER 8 (NOWAK 1890). LGO/ NELSONS. R3 AAC… one or two concerns about dynamic over-control, esp. at adagio climax.…possibly due to the conductor though…

Thoughtful, patient, searching through something, to get to somewhere…….Nelsons felt his way through a very moderato first movement, sounding and feeling as the first stage of a long journey. A surprisingly restrained final climax (Nelsons might have been better off with the 1892 version which has a diminuendo here (first publication, ed. Lienau, used by Knappertsbusch, Furtwangler etc)……where was this heading?

Suddenly - a lively, upbeat scherzo! We were moving on. But with a lyrical emphasis across the rhythms; a lovely, gentle, sweetly voiced Schubertian trio; no anticlimax on the hilltop though - arms spread wide to greet the sunlit alpine peaks! The Scherzo repeat wasn't too literal, and the movement came to a powerfully dynamic conclusion. So the symphony’s first half was absorbing.

Nelsons allowed the adagio almost to play itself; faithful, clear, unmannered; those lovely Leipzig strings, sweet, pure, nothing overstated or overripe. But was the rather restrained climax due to his control, or the sound-balancers? The wonderful coda held me rapt… but then, it usually does in any case.
More than once I pondered the same characteristic in the finale: powerful enough in the biggest moments, but still a sense of the brasses often being held back, again with lyrical, cantabile sound and phrasing emphasised. But the distinctive Leipzig strings/wind/brass blend was beautiful - individually theirs, but Austro-German-traditional in the best sense.
Nelsons shaped the last movement carefully, clarifying structure and emotional trajectory. That word “patient” again…but was too much tension sacrificed on the way to the coda? Perhaps.
…Which was, finally, magnificent: feeling truly conclusive in its cyclical summation, yet still retaining inner balance and control - and those deeply Austro-German, Schubertian sonorities and traditions. (I was often reminded of the Berlin Staatskapelle’s Bruckner sound with Barenboim).

The Great Eighth can take many approaches, and this wasn’t a reading to herald the apocalypse; rather, a traditionally-embedded one in which I found much to admire, to love, and to dwell upon.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I thought the relay had an usually large dynamic range . Listening on FM The pp’s almost inaudible (had to turn up the hifi At one point ) and the ff’s in the adagio bringing the limiters slamming in . Be interesting to hear from those in the hall (obviously no limiters there) . As I’ve already mentioned I couldn’t really hear the harps in the adagio.

[DracoM]

Remain totally unconvinced. Listened back and IMO it was a fiddly, lumbering performance utterly lacking majesty and / or depth. Really surprised. This is NOT the Leipzig G I know and love, nor Nelsons. But most particularly, not the Bruckner I knew either. Hugely disappointing for me, despite learned justifications etc ec. .

[Darkbloom]

The harps were difficult to hear and I was fairly near the front in the Arena. I don't think Nelsons is a Bruckner conductor, impressive as he is in other repertoire. It had a Rattle-esque feel of focusing on detail at the expense of overall shape and coherence.

Nelsons is a very busy and popular conductor, it must be very hard to develop interpretations when you are juggling so many responsibilities. Being in charge of an American orchestra, the BSO, is a huge commitment as you are often expected to play a role in fundraising, but he has also taken on another prestige outfit like Leipzig. It's too much for any one person. He is a very gifted musician and I am concerned that he is headed for burn out.

[Flay]

I think having the Bach organ pieces in the first half was perhaps another attempt at a Proms tribute concert - this time to Anton Bruckner.

Out of interest, would Bruckner have ever performed Bach's liturgical works, bearing in mind the Lutheran/Catholic differences.

IIRC from an old COTW, Bruckner sneaked into a cathedral in disguise, not daring to show his face (perhaps in Lübeck?) so he could listen to Bach's chorales.

[silvestrione]

Fascinating 8th from Nelsons, very beautiful orchestrally - full, warm, mellow but detailed with it.... very carefully thought through reading, often dynamically restrained, to some extent emphasising the string-led lyrical qualities - still, a magnificent final coda...

More later I hope - all passion spent now.......

I came in from the cricket highlights (lowlights) to listen to the last two movements (I know, but I do that sort of thing with the Proms) in a darkened room, and I thought the Leipzig orchestra were magnificent, much lovely playing. That climax was not restrained on my equipment! And oddly, since I don't have top drawer audiophile gear, just FM from a fine old Creek tuner, I did hear the harps...

[Stanfordian]

Out of interest, would Bruckner have ever performed Bach's liturgical works, bearing in mind the Lutheran/Catholic differences.

IIRC from an old COTW, Bruckner sneaked into a cathedral in disguise, not daring to show his face (perhaps in Lübeck?) so he could listen to Bach's chorales.

Would Bruckner have been allowed to play Lutheran sacred music by the RC church authorities? I doubt it, but I don't know for certain.