Prom 47: Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra - 23.08.19

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:30 Friday 23 August 2019
Royal Albert Hall

Johann Sebastian Bach: Fantasia in G minor, BWV 542
Johann Sebastian Bach: Cantata No. 147 ‘Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben’, BWV 147 – Chorale Johann Sebastian Bach: ‘Jesus bleibet meine Freude’ (transcr. Schmidt-Mannheim)
Johann Sebastian Bach: Prelude in E flat major, BWV 552
Johann Sebastian Bach: Chorale Prelude ‘Wachet auf, ruft uns die Stimme’, BWV 645
Johann Sebastian Bach: Fugue in E flat major, BWV 552
Anton Bruckner: Symphony No 8 in C minor (1890 version, ed. Nowak)

Michael Schönheit organ
Gewandhausorchester Leipzig
Andris Nelsons conductor

The Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra returns to the Proms for the first time under new Music Director Andris Nelsons.
At the heart of their programme is Bruckner’s Symphony No. 8 – a work as vast in scope as size, a mighty orchestral monologue whose monumental finale the composer considered ‘the most significant movement of my life’.
Before the broad unfolding of Bruckner, Michael Schonheit presents the meticulous detail of Bach in a series of solo organ works including the lovely chorale ‘Wachet auf’.

[Darkbloom]

I am pondering whether to go to this. It should be an obvious choice, given the orchestra and conductor, but I'm not sure whether Nelsons is a natural Bruckner conductor. His recording of the 3rd didn't convince and left me wondering whether this music means very much to him. I hope I'm proved wrong.

[jayne lee wilson]

Hmm..... RT & (hard copy) Proms Guide say Haas, Proms website says Nowak....
(from CD inlays, AN appears to have used Nowak in his recordings of 3 & 4...but the 8th is always another matter...)

Whether I can tell by ear may depend on alcohol consumption...

[Bryn]

Hmm..... RT & (hard copy) Proms Guide say Haas, Proms website says Nowak....

Whether I can tell by ear may depend on alcohol consumption...

Damn! If it does turn out to b the 1890 version (ed. Nowak), rather than Hass's pick and mix vitiation, I will kick myself and whoever gave the wrong edition. I avoid the Haas but have plenty of time for either of the Nowak editions. Too late to attend, now. It will have to be via 'Sounds'.

[jayne lee wilson]

For those who don't take a close interest in editional matters, it is important to make clear that Haas (1890) is the revised version of the 8th, with just 5 short passages restored from the original (1 in the adagio, 4 in the finale). Bruckner crossed out these passages after the revision was made.
Haas, feeling these excisions had been unduly influenced by Josef Schalk, restored them. Though brief, they may well be heard as enriching and clarifying the musical argument, which is why many conductors choose to perform the Haas edition still.

The 1887 Original (Nowak) is completely different in dozens of large and small details (including a completely different trio) and is virtually a separate - and compelling - work in itself.

But actually listening to Haas 1890 or Nowak 1890, is self-evidently a very similar experience.

More details here....

https://bruckner.webs.com/versions.html#sym8

[Lordgeous]

Does it not seem a bit peverse having such a wonderful orchestra there but making the first half of the concert an organ recital?

[Bryn]

For those who don't take a close interest in editional matters, it is important to make clear that Haas (1890) is the revised version of the 8th, with just 5 short passages restored from the original (1 in the adagio, 4 in the finale). Bruckner crossed out these passages after the revision was made.
Haas, feeling these excisions had been unduly influenced by Josef Schalk, restored them. Though brief, they may well be heard as enriching and clarifying the musical argument, which is why many conductors choose to perform the Haas edition still.

The 1887 Original (Nowak) is completely different in dozens of large and small details (including a completely different trio) and is virtually a separate - and compelling - work in itself.

But actually listening to Haas 1890 or Nowak 1890, is self-evidently a very similar experience.

More details here....
https://bruckner.webs.com/versions.html#sym8

However, as I an sure you are aware, Haas did not simply restore those few sections rejected by the composer when revising the work, he also composed his own linking passages. Better to hear either of the Nowak editions or occasionally, perhaps, the putatitive interim version as edited by Carragan.

[cloughie]

Does it not seem a bit peverse having such a wonderful orchestra there but making the first half of the concert an organ recital?

I hope you’re not suggesting that the LGO are lazy ! - What fo you fancy some big band Bach?

[Bryn]

I hope you’re not suggesting that the LGO are lazy ! - What fo you fancy some big band Bach?

More Varèse, another composer working in great blocks of sound. Arcana, perhaps. would have fitted well.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think having the Bach organ pieces in the first half was perhaps another attempt at a Proms tribute concert - this time to Anton Bruckner.

[cloughie]

More Varèse, another composer working in great blocks of sound. Arcana, perhaps. would have fitted well.

[DracoM]

Got to say the Bruckner is coming over as a bit....well, laboured, and even, dare I say it, turgid. So far.........

[jayne lee wilson]

However, as I an sure you are aware, Haas did not simply restore those few sections rejected by the composer when revising the work, he also composed his own linking passages. Better to hear either of the Nowak editions or occasionally, perhaps, the putatitive interim version as edited by Carragan.

Yes - details in the given link to Griegel.....

According to the adagio passage Bryn - it is Nowak tonight after all.

The problem with the 8th is simply that the music seems to make better sense with the restored passages, especially in the approach to the adagio climax, and the even longer passage which winds down toward the end of the finale's first stage. As Simpson says, it is hard to imagine that Bruckner gave them up willingly.
It is a tricky one; with the editions and versions of the other symphonies, the position is much clearer now with regard to musical quality and authorisation.

Still there are many recordings of both, and conductors perform both. So the comparison is always there to be made and - enjoyed!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm following a Nowak score (albeit intermittently ) and it seems to be what they are playing!

[DracoM]

And in that edition they are using I am lost. Crikey - seems to me to have lost a lot of its mightiness and seems to be playing around in the foothills with irrelevancies. And it's so PLODDING in tempi.

Hey ho! We hear and learn.

Never heard Haitink using this edition either. Did he ever?


Glad Jochum doesn't use that edition on my set.