Prom 71: Bach Night 11.09.19

[Frances_iom]

But - what about The Hooded Grebe....?

Co-Star of the show with the Dunedin Consort, surely....?

completely pointless to my ears - however I do plead I do get tired of what sounded like a gull.
To me the 1st was a dud - the composer appeared to have no idea how to bring it to a sensible end, the 2nd would be interesting once the bird noise is removed, the 3rd totally inoffensive + probably useful as background muzak - the 4th maybe snarky was somewhat ott but for me added nothing to the Bach - if fact I felt it was a fairly pointless exercise as none came near Bach (nor did I expect any to do) and I'm not sure any of the audience except those heavily into modern music would recall the name let alone the music.

[jayne lee wilson]

completely pointless to my ears - however I do plead I do get tired of what sounded like a gull.
To me the 1st was a dud - the composer appeared to have no idea how to bring it to a sensible end, the 2nd would be interesting once the bird noise is removed, the 3rd totally inoffensive + probably useful as background muzak - the 4th maybe snarky was somewhat ott but for me added nothing to the Bach - if fact I felt it was a fairly pointless exercise as none came near Bach (nor did I expect any to do) and I'm not sure any of the audience except those heavily into modern music would recall the name let alone the music.

So what kind of presentation (other than the Four Suites on their own) would you have preferred....?
(BTW - have you ever heard Cantus Arcticus? It's a lovely piece!)

[Frances_iom]

So what kind of presentation (other than the Four Suites on their own) would you have preferred....?
(BTW - have you ever heard Cantus Arcticus? It's a lovely piece!)

to (1) none what extra does Bach need ? (2) yes several times - here the bird fits well (as in a somewhat different way do such rendered sounds in Messiaen) but in the 'tango' no more than a quick 'wikipedia' find ? that was inserted because the song notation matched a sequence in Bach.

[jayne lee wilson]

Loganarts entry for Stevie Wishart has this....

"Stevie has composed a baroque tango inspired by the call of the endangered Hooded Grebe to accompany the Bach Suites performed by John Butt and the Dunedin Consort in their Bach Night on 11 Sept 2019 as part of the BBC Proms celebration of the centenary of Sir Henry Wood".

A documentary about the beloved bird & its astonishing dance is called.... "Tango in the Wind".....

https://vimeo.com/220228780

....I felt it fitted in well and was a lot of fun on a joyful night......
Don't think it sounds much like any Gull I've encountered though!
(I love Gulls too, poor things getting a bad press recently...)

[LMcD]

to (1) none what extra does Bach need ? (2) yes several times - here the bird fits well (as in a somewhat different way do such rendered sounds in Messiaen) but in the 'tango' no more than a quick 'wikipedia' find ? that was inserted because the song notation matched a sequence in Bach.

To me, it came across as yet another example of the work of the dreaded Can't Leave Anything Alone Brigade. Jacques Loussier - who knew how to pay homage to Bach without resorting to gimmicks - must be turning in his grave.

[Richard Barrett]

I felt it was a fairly pointless exercise as none came near Bach (nor did I expect any to do)

By that token it would seem pointless for anyone to compose anything after Bach, no? I don't like this kind of programme, but for other reasons. As for modern music, was there any? Stuart MacRae maybe, I've heard some very good work from him.

[Frances_iom]

By that token it would seem pointless for anyone to compose anything after Bach, no? I don't like this kind of programme, but for other reasons. As for modern music, was there any? Stuart MacRae maybe, I've heard some very good work from him.

I did not imply this, they have their place in a well thought through concert - however in all too many cases these interpolated 'world premieres' into a concert of well known and looked-forward-to classics smacks of the Beeb's continual interjection of adverts that jar with the surrounding context - probably a product of the same mindset as it appears that only 30% of millenials now believe in democracy and want a powerful 'you will do this' leader.

[Richard Barrett]

these interpolated 'world premieres' into a concert of well known and looked-forward-to classics

But the Bach pieces still exist, and you can listen to them any time you want to!

[Bryn]

. . . - probably a product of the same mindset as it appears that only 30% of millenials now believe in democracy and want a powerful 'you will do this' leader.

It does not compute. This 30% believe in democracy and want a powerful 'you will do this' leader? Eh?

[Frances_iom]

It does not compute. This 30% believe in democracy and want a powerful 'you will do this' leader? Eh?

correct missed out the all important connection - the rest ie 70% want a strong leader

[Frances_iom]

But the Bach pieces still exist, and you can listen to them any time you want to!

of course I can, I have several cds of these specific Bach works - among the few thousand I have stashed away - at 50p or so it's a crime not to acquire those I couldn't afford 20yrs ago - it's more the forced feeding by the Beeb that annoys me.

[jayne lee wilson]

of course I can, I have several cds of these specific Bach works - among the few thousand I have stashed away - at 50p or so it's a crime not to acquire those I couldn't afford 20yrs ago - it's more the forced feeding by the Beeb that annoys me.

How is it forced, if you can switch off or turn the volume down at will? With partly-listening-provoking Proms, I keep some good reading & a stiff drink handy...or go for a walk...

If you cut out the new works (as with the more substantial pieces combined with the Brandenburgs intégrale last year (Proms 29/30/2018), a vast afternoon and evening affair I had doubts about but ended up loving..and posted on here extensively...http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-5-08-18/page2) then I can't hear them at all, so...

Thou Nature art my Goddess....Now Gods, stand up for Hooded Grebes!

[Richard Barrett]

forced feeding by the Beeb

It's a concert programme! Sometimes they contain music one likes alongside music one doesn't like.

[Quarky]

How is it forced, if you can switch off or turn the volume down at will? With partly-listening-provoking Proms, I keep some good reading & a stiff drink handy...or go for a walk...

If you cut out the new works (as with the more substantial pieces combined with the Brandenburgs intégrale last year (Proms 29/30/2018), a vast afternoon and evening affair I had doubts about but ended up loving..and posted on here extensively...http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...-5-08-18/page2) then I can't hear them at all, so...

Thou Nature art my Goddess....Now Gods, stand up for Hooded Grebes!

Many thanks for your analyses Jayne, they are much appreciated.

I was under the impression that this was going to be a straight forward Bach concert, but these new works, short though they were, had the effect of making me listen to Bach's variations much more closely. Will have to listen again, and to Hannah French's comments.

If the aim of the Proms is to bring Classical Music to the widest possible audience, and if that audience includes way-out types that listen to New Music and jazz, then this concert succeeded in its aim.

.....Bachianas Brasileiras.........