Proms 72 & 73 - Symphonie fantastique - 12.09.19

[David-G]

Actors seem to manage performing from memory without being accused of "vanity" or providing gimmicks. The only criterion is the quality of the resulting performances - and, in the five* Proms events that the Aurora Orchestra have given that I've heard, these have been excellent. They could perform standing on their heads if that would lead to such good performances.

(* - I didn't listen to the Berlioz - I don't want the theatrical interruptions. Berlioz' Music with spoken dialogue and acting? Do Lelio!)

My advice - put up with the interruptions, which were not greatly bothersome, and listen. Or better still, watch on catch-up. This was one of the best Proms that I attended.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The "theatrical interruptions" were simply an introduction to the circumstances of the work's composition, and an explanation of it's programme in relation to Berlioz himself - not a bad thing for a fresh audience.

Precisely why, stale as I am, I'm not interested in them - I've already been "introduced"

My advice - put up with the interruptions, which were not greatly bothersome, and listen. Or better still, watch on catch-up. This was one of the best Proms that I attended.

I'm glad you enjoyed it - and, as I've said, I've been very impressed with Aurora's work in the past. What I may very well do is go over the concert in Sounds and edit out the non-Musical additions - I presume from what you've said that none of the dialogue crossed with the performance of the Music?

[John Wright]

Berlioz himself wanted to stage this work, in a different way but he would surely have been in awe of the performance by Aurora, so we cannot argue with that.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Berlioz himself wanted to stage this work, in a different way

Did he? I don't remember reading that in the Memoirs or in Barzun (it may be mentioned in Cairns but I'm only on the chapter on Les Francs Juges) - have you got details of how he was envisioning such a staging, please, David?

I do know Berlioz' comment in his 1855 programme note for the Symphonie

The following programme should be distributed to the audience every time the Symphonie fantastique is performed dramatically and thus followed by the monodrame of Lélio which concludes and completes the episode in the life of an artist. In this case the invisible orchestra is placed on the stage of a theatre behind the lowered curtain ... The author hopes that the symphony provides on its own sufficient musical interest independently of any dramatic intention.

So "staging" here simply means "on a stage".

[jonfan]

A bit uncharacteristically grumpy today ferney. David G remarks that this performance would appeal to newcomers to the work but at the same time I found it a refreshing experience having performed the piece many times. (I could do a lot of Horn 2 from memory but not with anything like the security for Aurora, and certainly not putting the notes in the right places!)
Surely it’s good to approach a well loved piece as though listening for the first time and expecting to be excited all over again on a new discovery.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A bit uncharacteristically grumpy today ferney.

Yes. it does look that way - but that isn't the tone with which I wrote these posts, honest. I'm not at all saying "Scoundrels! Blasphemy! Ban them!" I completely agree that for necomers to the work - and perhaps even for those who think that don't like the work - this might well be a revelatory experience, initiating a lifelong adoration of the work and its composer. But I don't need such an introduction: any good performance makes me excited all over again to hear the work: it's perpetual "new discovery" for me. I just wish that there could have been room for at least one performance by the Auroras on their own, say at lunchtime, without the additional words - it would have made me so happy whilst not hurting anyone else's feelings.

[David-G]

I don't think any of the dialogue crossed with the music. You could think of the dialogue as a brief "pre-concert talk" setting the scene for the piece, which was acted rather than delivered as an address. It was relatively brief and didn't bother me overmuch. And then there were brief scene-settings before each movement. If you watch or listen on Sounds you can fast-forward through all these. But they all worried me much less than I had anticipated.

As well as being an excellent performance it was a very visual performance. I have mentioned the masks in the last movement - but also (for example), bringing the four harps to the front of the stage for the ball movement was very striking.

So I still say - do listen, or better watch. By all means fast-forward through the offending spoken sections - but if you don't want to bother to do that, I really do not feel that it is such an issue.

[David-G]

Did he? I don't remember reading that in the Memoirs or in Barzun (it may be mentioned in Cairns but I'm only on the chapter on Les Francs Juges) - have you got details of how he was envisioning such a staging, please, David?

I think you meant to ask John Wright? I am not aware that he was envisioning any sort of staging.

[John Wright]

I possibly read about Berlioz staging idea on an LP sleeve. He wanted to HIDE the orchestra!
There’s a link here which mentions staging, but it takes you to a pay site for the book

https://www.jstor.org › stable
Symphonie fantastique - jstor
by N Temperley · 1971 · Cited by 36 · Related articles
1 Berlioz wrote only one explicit Program, that of the Symphonie fantastique. ..... In such a case, the unseen orchestra is arranged on the stage of a theater.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think you meant to ask John Wright? I am not aware that he was envisioning any sort of staging.

- apologies to both.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I possibly read about Berlioz staging idea on an LP sleeve. He wanted to HIDE the orchestra!
There’s a link here which mentions staging, but it takes you to a pay site for the book

https://www.jstor.org › stable
Symphonie fantastique - jstor
by N Temperley · 1971 · Cited by 36 · Related articles
1 Berlioz wrote only one explicit Program, that of the Symphonie fantastique. ..... In such a case, the unseen orchestra is arranged on the stage of a theater.

Ah - that refers to the second programme note Berlioz wrote for the Symph Fan in 1855 (the one I quoted from in #34); the invisible orchestra is only applicable when it is followed by Lelio in the same concert. (The first programme note he wrote for the work - before he wrote Lelio - has no such staging requests.

But basta! I shall listen - and I may well try the televised broadcast of the concert whilst it's still on the i-Player (or have they changed the name to "Sights" now?): I'm sure the orchestral work will be first class.

[John Wright]

Ah - that refers to the second programme note Berlioz wrote for ....

Ah right, now I've read your #34 properly both are talking about the same thing. But I will look up all the LP sleeves (I have 5 recordings 1960s/70s) just to check what I've read before. Looking at my datasheet, for my most recent recording, on CD I only have the BBC magazine disc from 1993!

[Bryn]

Ah right, now I've read your #34 properly both are talking about the same thing. But I will look up all the LP sleeves (I have 5 recordings 1960s/70s) just to check what I've read before. Looking at my datasheet, for my most recent recording, on CD I only have the BBC magazine disc from 1993!

https://www.rhinegold.co.uk/wp-conte...antastique.pdf offers the essentials.

[Oakapple]

Given that they used natural trumpets, I was disappointed that tubas were played instead of ophicleides. Berlioz did indeed write those low B flat notes for the trombone but in my score, which is a reprint of the 1900 Breitkopf & Hartel edition, the editor has swapped the third trombone part with the first tuba [sic] for that jaunty march episode. Maybe he thought it was too difficult for the trombone or that it would sound better on a tuba, though I doubt it would.

[Estelle]

Just as an aside relating to Nicholas Collon and the Aurora Orchestra, I would like to mention that Liszt's pupil and later son-in-law, the conductor and pianist Hans von Bülow (1830-1894), had the Meiningen Court Orchestra, which he conducted between 1880 and 1885, perform from memory. He conducted entirely from memory as well. This photo of the Meiningen Court Orchestra was taken in Berlin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiningen_Court_Orchestra#/media/File:MeiningerHofkapelle1882.jpg

A further innovation was to acquaint additional audiences with the Meiningen Orchestra by organizing tours for them via railway. The orchestra traveled through Germany, Austria, Hungary, and the Netherlands.

Brahms had von Bülow and the Meiningen Orchestra test out his orchestral compositions for him. Brahms himself conducted the premiere of his fourth symphony with the Meiningen Court Orchestra on 25 October, 1885.

For more information I highly recommend Alan Walker's "Hans von Bülow: a Life and Times (2010)."