Prom 75 - Last Night of the Proms 14.09.19

[un barbu]

Auld Lang Syne. The old tune is the better but try telling folk that.

https://youtu.be/7L0ZXh_ErL0

[MrGongGong]

Mike Cox?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znVBvpesDzI&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Barbirollians]

What is predictable on the Last Night over the years is people on these boards saying how bad it is and they'd rather watch paint dry than see or hear it again. Then, Lo! and Behold they pop up the following year and say the self same thing! LNOTP is not going to change. If you don't like it just celebrate the glorious variety and quality of the music making over the last 8 weeks in all the other concerts.

I don’t agree a few years ago LNOTP was seriously dumbed down . Traditionally , there was a concerto in the first half and that has now been replaced by endless bitty pieces and musical theatre items have become pretty much standard .

How that concert would have been improved with say one of the BBC New Generation Artists playing a concerto.

[cloughie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znVB...&frags=pl%2Cwn

Right!

[cloughie]

I don’t agree a few years ago LNOTP was seriously dumbed down . Traditionally , there was a concerto in the first half and that has now been replaced by endless bitty pieces and musical theatre items have become pretty much standard .

How that concert would have been improved with say one of the BBC New Generation Artists playing a concerto.

eg the lady in Belfast.

[Darkbloom]

I was in the Hall, and I agree - the second half didn't really catch fire. As for 'shall' and 'will' - the old perennial - the word printed in the programme is 'will', so that's what I sing, and those who disagree are what I shall choose to call wrong. I have programmes for over 25 Last Nights to back me up. I accept that that's a weak argument when applied to the obviously wrong words given for Auld Lang Syne - so far as I am aware they were last printed correctly back in the days of James Loughran - but there's no way around it. If we are to sing at all then it's best if we all sing the same words, and that means singing what is printed in the programme.

I can see why 'shall' is preferred though. It sounds more defiant and the open vowel makes it easier to sing.

[LMcD]

I can see why 'shall' is preferred though. It sounds more defiant and the open vowel makes it easier to sing.

At school I was taught that 'shall' indicates that something is definitely going to happen and 'will' indicates a wish or determination to ensure that it does (which, if correct, means that Cinderella will definitely get to enjoy the ball).

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

At school I was taught that 'shall' indicates that something is definitely going to happen and 'will' indicates a wish or determination to ensure that it does (which, if correct, means that Cinderella will definitely get to enjoy the ball).

- that's why Coriolanus gets so cross when somebody tries to tell him what he "shall" do. (And why we shouldn't take for granted that what we write in our Last Will & Testament is automatically going to happen after the clog-popping.)

[EnemyoftheStoat]

I don’t agree a few years ago LNOTP was seriously dumbed down . Traditionally , there was a concerto in the first half and that has now been replaced by endless bitty pieces and musical theatre items have become pretty much standard .

How that concert would have been improved with say one of the BBC New Generation Artists playing a concerto.

But that would have got in the way of the Derham Show, wouldn’t it.

[Dave Payn]

Auld Lang Syne. The old tune is the better but try telling folk that.

https://youtu.be/7L0ZXh_ErL0

I wholeheartedly agree!

[John Locke]

At school I was taught that 'shall' indicates that something is definitely going to happen and 'will' indicates a wish or determination to ensure that it does (which, if correct, means that Cinderella will definitely get to enjoy the ball).

Though isn't 'shall' the (formal) future form in the first person (I, we), 'will' in the second and third persons? 'Will', first person and 'shall' second and third indicate intent or determination? So as Darkbloom says: 'Britons never shall be slaves' is nowadays a stronger statement than 'Britons never will be slaves' - but was that also the case in the 18th century?

[Pulcinella]

Just checked how The Beatitudes are translated in a few bibles: King James, Revised Standard, New English, and Jerusalem all use shall; the Good News version uses will.
Not such good news, then?

[John Locke]

From the depths of my memory I have trawled up the following:

Despairing shout: 'No one will save me - I shall drown'. Reaction: a rescue attempt

Defiant shout: 'No one shall save me - I will drown'. Reaction: your wish respected

[seabright]

Mention of "Auld Lang Syne" reminds me of a little book of programme notes written by Rosa Newmarch in 1930. In this, she gives details of the "Fantasia on Scottish Melodies" arranged by Sir Henry Wood and first performed in 1909. The sequence consists of about 20 numbers, including "Charlie is my darling," "Annie Laurie," "The Campbells are coming" and "Auld Lang Syne" to end up with. The notes says that "Sir Henry's instrumentation is most brilliant," so one wonders why this hasn't been played again since 1929.

Also detailed is Wood's "Fantasia on Welsh Melodies," these including "All Through the Night," "The Ash-grove," "David of the White Rock," "Men of Harlech" and "God Bless the Prince of Wales." Again, Newmarch praises Wood's orchestration as "scintillating, with brilliant effects." This too was first played in 1909 and, like the "Scottish" Fantasia, had lots of performances until 1929, since when it has not been heard again. I think both "Fantasias" could merit a revival, perhaps by the BBC's own Scottish and Welsh orchestras respectively when they appear at the Proms. Something novel for next year, perhaps?

[cloughie]

Mention of "Auld Lang Syne" reminds me of a little book of programme notes written by Rosa Newmarch in 1930. In this, she gives details of the "Fantasia on Scottish Melodies" arranged by Sir Henry Wood and first performed in 1909. The sequence consists of about 20 numbers, including "Charlie is my darling," "Annie Laurie," "The Campbells are coming" and "Auld Lang Syne" to end up with. The notes says that "Sir Henry's instrumentation is most brilliant," so one wonders why this hasn't been played again since 1929.

Also detailed is Wood's "Fantasia on Welsh Melodies," these including "All Through the Night," "The Ash-grove," "David of the White Rock," "Men of Harlech" and "God Bless the Prince of Wales." Again, Newmarch praises Wood's orchestration as "scintillating, with brilliant effects." This too was first played in 1909 and, like the "Scottish" Fantasia, had lots of performances until 1929, since when it has not been heard again. I think both "Fantasias" could merit a revival, perhaps by the BBC's own Scottish and Welsh orchestras respectively when they appear at the Proms. Something novel for next year, perhaps?

Proper fare for ‘Proms in the(ir respective) park(s)’ if they insist on continuing these!