Are Proms more popular this year?

[LMcD]

I queued in 1969 to see concerts conducted by Christoph von Dohnanyi and Reginald Goodall (the latter conducting Bruckner 8th, if memory serves, with the Amadeus and Gervaise de Peyer playing the Mozart Clarinet Quintet in the 1st half).

[Dave2002]

At one time they only used to bother with queue tickets for very popular concerts, then (when they replaced the older stewards) they did it for everything. That's fine if anyone bothers to check them, but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think they really care now and mostly want a quiet life and don't get involved unless an argument develops.

The group "abuse" situation I mentioned earlier wasn't always a problem, and for the most part I guess most people weren't too worried. However, there were occasions where one extra persion would arrive much later, and maybe that caused a bump on the end of the queue. If challenged, the group would often say something like "oh, he/she came earlier, and went to get a coffee (or go to the loo)" - which in some cases those surrounding knew not to be true.

Doesn't sound as though the newer queueing system has really solved all the issues.

C'est la vie!

[Bryn]

The group "abuse" situation I mentioned earlier wasn't always a problem, and for the most part I guess most people weren't too worried. However, there were occasions where one extra persion would arrive much later, and maybe that caused a bump on the end of the queue. If challenged, the group would often say something like "oh, he/she came earlier, and went to get a coffee (or go to the loo)" - which in some cases those surrounding knew not to be true.

Doesn't sound as though the newer queueing system has really solved all the issues.

C'est la vie!

When I arrived at 08:45 on Tuesday morning, there were 11 people ahead of me in the queue. That remained the case until a few seconds before the cloakroom tickets started to be given out. Somehow I was now 14th in the queue. Whether the extra 2 had genuinely arrived earlier than me, then gone off for a coffee or for some other reason, I do not know, but none of those ahead of me seemed in the least put out by the sudden appearance of the extra two.

[Dave2002]

When I arrived at 08:45 on Tuesday morning, there were 11 people ahead of me in the queue. That remained the case until a few seconds before the cloakroom tickets started to be given out. Somehow I was now 14th in the queue. Whether the extra 2 had genuinely arrived earlier than me, then gone off for a coffee or for some other reason, I do not know, but none of those ahead of me seemed in the least put out by the sudden appearance of the extra two.

Indeed - if you were near the front of the queue that would hardly have given you a problem. If everyone who wants can get in, there's really no big problem. Why should you have been "put out"? Of course if you had been colluding with others to enable others to get in (not likely in the situation you mentioned) then again, why would you be "put out" or admit to it? It's just if some people are going to be bumped, should they be bumped because other people much futher up have "saved" a place for their friends? In many cases of course the bumped people won't know that this has happened, so probably best for them to "write it off to experience". Over the years when I did queue there were only a few times when I didn't get in. Sometimes it was fairly obvious that a whole bunch of us weren't going to make it, but there was one occasion when I got right to the front five minutes before the start, and was then waved away. Also, I think some of the "friends" groups don't actually imagine that their actions may deprive someone else of a great experience. Some people are genuinely innocent/ignorant of this - even people who are normally quite aware.

[PhilipT]

At one time they only used to bother with queue tickets for very popular concerts, then (when they replaced the older stewards) they did it for everything. That's fine if anyone bothers to check them, but it doesn't happen very often. I don't think they really care now and mostly want a quiet life and don't get involved unless an argument develops.

Not quite right. Up until 1992 queuing was organised by the prommers; you signed a list on arrival. From 1993 onwards, lists were abolished, and raffle tickets were issued if there were two Proms, or if there was a pre-Prom talk. There wasn't a pre-Prom talk every day then, now there is. Tickets were issued to allow people to leave the queue for those reasons and then reclaim their places, not to prevent queue-jumping, but there certainly were cases when Stewards were asked to check tickets because there had been a blatant attempt.

When the new system was introduced about three years ago tickets were checked both at the door and in the corridor (very necessary if there were two Proms), but I've not seen them so assiduous this year.

[Bryn]

Not quite right. Up until 1992 queuing was organised by the prommers; you signed a list on arrival. From 1993 onwards, lists were abolished, and raffle tickets were issued if there were two Proms, or if there was a pre-Prom talk. There wasn't a pre-Prom talk every day then, now there is. Tickets were issued to allow people to leave the queue for those reasons and then reclaim their places, not to prevent queue-jumping, but there certainly were cases when Stewards were asked to check tickets because there had been a blatant attempt.

When the new system was introduced about three years ago tickets were checked both at the door and in the corridor (very necessary if there were two Proms), but I've not seen them so assiduous this year.

Indeed, at the two Proms, I have attended so far this year, no check has taken place in the corridor queue immediately before entry to the Arena. This is to the considerable disadvantage of the less agile Prommers who made a point of getting in the Hall early in the day. Whether this is down to a policy lapse of lack of attention to a policy still supposedly in force, I do not know.

[Darkbloom]

Not quite right. Up until 1992 queuing was organised by the prommers; you signed a list on arrival. From 1993 onwards, lists were abolished, and raffle tickets were issued if there were two Proms, or if there was a pre-Prom talk. There wasn't a pre-Prom talk every day then, now there is. Tickets were issued to allow people to leave the queue for those reasons and then reclaim their places, not to prevent queue-jumping, but there certainly were cases when Stewards were asked to check tickets because there had been a blatant attempt.

When the new system was introduced about three years ago tickets were checked both at the door and in the corridor (very necessary if there were two Proms), but I've not seen them so assiduous this year.

My promming dates from the late nineties so I missed the self-governing era. I go to a handful of proms in the season, but I can't remember tickets being checked, they mostly rely on people's honesty.

[alywin]

As far as I can see, the raffle tickets are used merely to reconstitute the queue as it originally "was". You check your place in relation to the people around you - so I suppose the Prommers effectively police it.

Back in the late 90s, I remember several times queue-jumpers being ejected from the queue, yet the one time I actually took my cue (no pun intended) from this and pointed out to a steward that several people had queue-jumped (this being already a long queue, with more people in it than were likely to get in) I was told that if I didn't like it I knew what I could do about it. As a result, a handful of people who by queuing deserved to have got in were denied entry. So I guess it depended entirely on the steward concerned.

[Demetrius]

When I arrived at 08:45 on Tuesday morning, there were 11 people ahead of me in the queue. That remained the case until a few seconds before the cloakroom tickets started to be given out. Somehow I was now 14th in the queue. Whether the extra 2 had genuinely arrived earlier than me, then gone off for a coffee or for some other reason, I do not know, but none of those ahead of me seemed in the least put out by the sudden appearance of the extra two.

I'm usually in London for a week or so now during the Proms, and when I am, I prom and come in early. The people who come in early are often regulars, and usually know exactly who was already there before them and who came directly after. Since everyone basically knows his/her number, they then are free to move around, get a coffee, talk to one of the other queues (day ticket / season etc) ... they know that the others would back them up if an argument develops. If you are a tourist, the new system is definitely preferable. Come in early, get your raffle ticket, then do something else and come back at 6 pm when the queue reforms. I don't see too many ways to abuse this; you could probably get away with someone else getting you a raffle ticket, but this won't affect other people in the queue as long as you can only take one raffle ticket per person who turns up.

[Norrette]

You also have to bear in mind that 1,276 of the 5,272 seats in the Albert Hall are owned by private individuals. If they are not using them themselves, or giving them to friends, they are supposed to return them to the Box Office for resale, but this can happen fairly late in the day. Lots of these seats will also find themselves in the hands of the corporate hospitality re-sellers as well. This means a Prom could appear to be sold out because the Box Office has no tickets for sale, when in fact there are lots of seats that could still become available closer to the date of the concert.

Came across this topic whilst looking for something else. it seems that the Charities Commission have been raising this issue with the RAH for some years now. If you search for Royal Albert Hall on Hansard you'll find that Charities Commission have been repeatedly asking the Attorney General to allow them call an enquiry on profiteering by so-called charitable debenture holders. It's been raised twice a year I think and keeps getting kicked into the long grass.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2018-12-13/debates/3CB9F90B-C6DC-4EAC-B370-C7FA654D6904/RoyalAlbertHall