Prom 75: Last Night of the Proms – 8.09.18

[ardcarp]

Many people unfortunately think that singing Land of H&G and Jerusalem is done with a sense of patriotic fervour, jingoism even. Well it isn't....not by most people anyway They're just bloody good tunes for a good old sing. (If I'm not mistaken Parry dedicated Jerusalem to the women's suffrage movement.)

BTW I thought Gerald Finlay did the soliloquy song from Carousel brilliantly. (Slight pity he needed the dots in front of him for the Sea Songs.)

[MrGongGong]

Many people unfortunately think that singing Land of H&G and Jerusalem is done with a sense of patriotic fervour, jingoism even. Well it isn't....not by most people anyway They're just bloody good tunes for a good old sing. (If I'm not mistaken Parry dedicated Jerusalem to the women's suffrage movement.)

Jerusalem is, of course, a series of questions to which the answer is NO

There is this

[Old Grumpy]

I disagree. The Proms in the Park make good TV, but I think the problem comes with trying to stick bits of them together with the LN proper. I would like to go back to having the whole of the RAH LN on TV(ideally all on BBC2 instead of splitting at halftime) and putting out the PitP versions (on BBC1 if LN is on 2) in the appropriate country. I realise that runs against the current mindset of those in charge but if friends at choir are anything to go by there is an element of crossover audience which would like to watch both but not as a cut and paste single offering.

I think we actually probably agree. The PitP offering could be on the Red Button, perhaps.

OG

[Pabmusic]

....If I'm not mistaken Parry dedicated Jerusalem to the women's suffrage movement....

Quite so, but only after some concerrn that he'd withdraw the song entirely.

Sequence of events:

Walford Davies & Robert Bridges approach Parry in February 1916 asking for something for a choral concert in late March for the Fight for Right movement, to lobby the government not to seek peace with Germany. Parry says no, and refers them to George Butterworth (they contact his father, but George is already in France).

Despite this, Parry sets the four stanzas froom Milton by Blake that Bridges left with Parry. It is called And Did Those Feet In Ancient Time. It it a success at the concert, the music widely available at 2d a sheet, but Parry keeps the copyright himself.

In 1917 he withdraws support for Fight For Right. There is concern he will withdraw the song. Someone (probably Lady Maude Parry) alerts Mllicent Garrett Fawcett, who asks Parry if it can be the Women Voters' Hymn. He enthusiastically agrees, assigns copyright to the Suffrage Movt., and produces an orchestral version for the Suffrage Rally on March 13th 1918. During this process someone (probably not Parry) renames it Jerusalem.

In 1922 Elgar gets permission to score it for very big forces for the Leeds Festival.

When the Suffrage Movt. is wound up in 1928, Parry's excutors reassign copyright to the Society of Women's Institutes.

It does not appear at the Proms till the 1950s, with Sargent.

Iinteresting tale.

[ardcarp]

Thanks as always for your erudition Pabs.
Then there's this, with massed toothbrushes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65NuypEkg-4

The audience is the funny bit...distinctly un-emancipated.

[edashtav]

Quite so, but only after some concerrn that he'd withdraw the song entirely.

Sequence of events:

Walford Davies & Robert Bridges approach Parry in February 1916 asking for something for a choral concert in late March for the Fight for Right movement, to lobby the government not to seek peace with Germany. Parry says no, and refers them to George Butterworth (they contact his father, but George is already in France).

Despite this, Parry sets the four stanzas froom Milton by Blake that Bridges left with Parry. It is called And Did Those Feet In Ancient Time. It it a success at the concert, the music widely available at 2d a sheet, but Parry keeps the copyright himself.

In 1917 he withdraws support for Fight For Right. There is concern he will withdraw the song. Someone (probably Lady Maude Parry) alerts Mllicent Garrett Fawcett, who asks Parry if it can be the Women Voters' Hymn. He enthusiastically agrees, assigns copyright to the Suffrage Movt., and produces an orchestral version for the Suffrage Rally on March 13th 1918. During this process someone (probably not Parry) renames it Jerusalem.

In 1922 Elgar gets permission to score it for very big forces for the Leeds Festival.

When the Suffrage Movt. is wound up in 1928, Parry's excutors reassign copyright to the Society of Women's Institutes.

It does not appear at the Proms till the 1950s, with Sargent.

Iinteresting tale.

You’re a

Pabs

[Lordgeous]

Many people unfortunately think that singing Land of H&G and Jerusalem is done with a sense of patriotic fervour, jingoism even. Well it isn't....not by most people anyway They're just bloody good tunes for a good old sing. (If I'm not mistaken Parry dedicated Jerusalem to the women's suffrage movement.)

I have to admit that hearing 6 or 7 thousand people singing that wonderful melody in that terrific arrangement in that fabulous hall never ceases to move me.

[cloughie]

Jerusalem is, of course, a series of questions to which the answer is NO

There is this

in the absence a loo flush!

[Beef Oven!]

I have to admit that hearing 6 or 7 thousand people singing that wonderful melody in that terrific arrangement in that fabulous hall never ceases to move me.

[LMcD]

I have to admit that hearing 6 or 7 thousand people singing that wonderful melody in that terrific arrangement in that fabulous hall never ceases to move me.

[Pabmusic]

Thanks as always for your erudition Pabs.
Then there's this, with massed toothbrushes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65NuypEkg-4

The audience is the funny bit...distinctly un-emancipated.

Yes. But the tune's nowhere near as good...

[Serial_Apologist]

I have to admit that hearing 6 or 7 thousand people singing that wonderful melody in that terrific arrangement in that fabulous hall never ceases to move me.

Surely you don't mean Land of Hope & Gory? Jerusalem, yes. Pity the actual words disqualify it from being a replacement for the National Anthem.

[Serial_Apologist]

The captain of the Titanic at least knew what course he was on.

Thank you, barman. Make that one on the rocks, if your would, please.

[LMcD]

Surely you don't mean Land of Hope & Gory? Jerusalem, yes. Pity the actual words disqualify it from being a replacement for the National Anthem.

All you need to do is replace 'England's' with 'this our'. Land of Hope and Glory is downright triumphalist, whereas Jerusalem is aspirational.

[oddoneout]

There was a review in the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/sep/09/last-night-of-the-proms-review-andrew-davis-bbcso-flora-willson

Among the predicatable BTL dross was this which I thought rather cheering(although I realise the person concerned gave the actual LN a miss)

wheresmehat 2d ago

As a recent convert to Radio 3 I've listening to many of the Prom's gigs this season, I missed the last one, but I can't say I'm too disappointed. The rest were, in my humble, unwise in the ways of classical (although it transpires there's a lot more to R3 than that...) music mind, awesome.

And this of some interest - sound familiar?

Treflesg 2d ago
The Last Night of the Proms has long been popular (which other night of classical music gets an annual following of millions of people in the UK???) and traditional in a harmless way e.g. there were always flags of other nations, and the UK home nations, amongst the Union Flags.
But, for a decade or more there have been pressures from the usual progressives to make it less traditional, as, they are embarrassed by it and don't care that millions are not.
And last night was the result, a reduced version of the traditional night, more boring, I lost interest and went online.
It was summed up by the conductors speech in which he said 'they used to make me tell you lots of facts about the number of performers and concerts but I don't have to do that anymore.' So instead he told us nothing of interest at all, just some feeble jokes.
Why do the BBC and the progressives in general always want to reform and modernise successful things? Do they not notice that it hardly ever works out?

wheresmehat Treflesg 2d ago

To be fair, I listened to a lot of the Proms this year, and found the coverage on R3 to be very informative, but as I mention in my other post on this thread, it doesn't take a huge amount to inform me about 'classical' music, I'm not quite on the 'Bate who?', level, but you get my drift.

BTW if you know I'm infringing copyright or whatever by quoting these please tell me and I'll desist.