Prom 61: Yannick Nézet-Séguin & Rotterdam Philharmonic – 28.08.18

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:30
Royal Albert Hall

Franz Liszt: Piano Concerto No. 2 in A major
Anton Bruckner: Symphony No 4 in E flat major 'Romantic'

Yefim Bronfman piano
Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra
Yannick Nézet‐Séguin conductor

The Rotterdam Philharmonic Orchestra celebrates its 100th anniversary with its first visit to the Proms in five years, under the baton of Chief Conductor Yannick Nézet-Séguin. Subtitled the ‘Romantic’ by the composer, Bruckner’s Fourth Symphony draws deeply on the German Romantic tradition of Weber and Wagner for its colourful musical drama. Yefim Bronfman is the soloist in Liszt’s Second Piano Concerto, a work originally conceived as a ‘concerto symphonique’, which offers a fascinating reimagining of the traditional relationship between soloist and orchestra.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But which of the multiple versions/editings of the Bruckner will we hear?

[bluestateprommer]

But which of the multiple versions/editings of the Bruckner will we hear?

If his recording with the Orchestre Metropolitain is any indication, per this review, YNS will use the 1936 Robert Haas edition.

[Darkbloom]

But which of the multiple versions/editings of the Bruckner will we hear?

I think the version conductors use is pretty standard for the 4th, barring any minor details, and they don't bother with the original version too often. It's usually the 3rd and 8th that have multiple editions. Much as I love Bruckner, I don't think any editor can save the final movement of the 4th from being a mess - a glorious mess, but still a mess.

[jayne lee wilson]

I think the version conductors use is pretty standard for the 4th, barring any minor details, and they don't bother with the original version too often. It's usually the 3rd and 8th that have multiple editions. Much as I love Bruckner, I don't think any editor can save the final movement of the 4th from being a mess - a glorious mess, but still a mess.

For this affliction, I recommend... notebook & pen... as you listen to the Bruckner 4 finale, note the ideas as they occur and the variants of them (a,b,c...a1 b1 c1 etc etc... then after one hearing, listen again and try to "follow" this highly original structure, which is impossible to encapsulate in terms of sonata or rondo, though it may adumbrate elements of both...)...

Why do I advise this? Because this is how I came to appreciate a majestic, original but yes - imperfect structure, having long been baffled by it. (NB - there aren't many "perfect" ones in works of this scale, especially finales...)

YNS' sole recording (with the Metropolitain) is Haas 1878-80. I'd love him to shock me with 1874 or 1888 (first publication) but I don't want to get onto those questions now...

[Beef Oven!]

For this affliction, I recommend... notebook & pen... as you listen to the Bruckner 4 finale, note the ideas as they occur and the variants of them (a,b,c...a1 b1 c1 etc etc... then after one hearing, listen again and try to "follow" this highly original structure, which is impossible to encapsulate in terms of sonata or rondo, though it may adumbrate elements of both...)...

Why do I advise this? Because this is how I came to appreciate a majestic, original but yes - imperfect structure, having long been baffled by it. (NB - there aren't many "perfect" ones in works of this scale, especially finales...)

YNS' sole recording (with the Metropolitain) is Haas 1878-80. I'd love him to shock me with 1874 or 1888 (first publication) but I don't want to get onto those questions now...

I'd say Celibidache's EMI/Warner Classics MPO Bruckner 4 has one of the best performances of the finale, in my humble opinion. He performs the 1878/80 ed. Haas (1936).

[Darkbloom]

I'd say Celibidache's EMI/Warner Classics MPO Bruckner 4 has one of the best performances of the finale, in my humble opinion. He performs the 1878/80 ed. Haas (1936).

Particularly the final moments. They're quite magical.

[Darkbloom]

For this affliction, I recommend... notebook & pen... as you listen to the Bruckner 4 finale, note the ideas as they occur and the variants of them (a,b,c...a1 b1 c1 etc etc... then after one hearing, listen again and try to "follow" this highly original structure, which is impossible to encapsulate in terms of sonata or rondo, though it may adumbrate elements of both...)...

Why do I advise this? Because this is how I came to appreciate a majestic, original but yes - imperfect structure, having long been baffled by it. (NB - there aren't many "perfect" ones in works of this scale, especially finales...)

YNS' sole recording (with the Metropolitain) is Haas 1878-80. I'd love him to shock me with 1874 or 1888 (first publication) but I don't want to get onto those questions now...

I'll bear it in mind the next time I listen, but I think most people concede that it isn't one of his finest creations. At least in terms of structure, but then great performances like the Celibidache (I'd add Klemperer too) can sweep those reservations aside. It reminds me too much of the finale of the 3rd, in the way you can audibly hear him struggle with his material. That said, he went on to write the 5th, which is an absolute triumph, so you may have a point. I won't say you convinced me but you gave me good for thought.

[jayne lee wilson]

I'll bear it in mind the next time I listen, but I think most people concede that it isn't one of his finest creations. At least in terms of structure, but then great performances like the Celibidache (I'd add Klemperer too) can sweep those reservations aside. It reminds me too much of the finale of the 3rd, in the way you can audibly hear him struggle with his material. That said, he went on to write the 5th, which is an absolute triumph, so you may have a point. I won't say you convinced me but you gave me good for thought.

Returning only to mention that the 1873 3rd's original finale is significantly different (and structurally superior) to the 1877/1889 versions, I would recommend close attention to the 1874 4th's finale as well. But it does take close familiarisation, of course, to see how it all adds up....SWR/Norrington makes wonderful sense of it...

[Bryn]

Returning only to mention that the 1873 3rd's original finale is significantly different (and structurally superior) to the 1877/1889 versions, I would recommend close attention to the 1874 4th's finale as well. But it does take close familiarisation, of course, to see how it all adds up....SWR/Norrington makes wonderful sense of it...

You had mention Marmite, didn't you?

[bluestateprommer]

Splendidly virtuosic account of 'FLiszt' # 2 just now, with YB on excellent form and the Rotterdam PO and YNS providing terrific support. YB never pounded the piano, even though the work itself might have sounded like that. First-class, refined treatment of the work all the way. Very nice encore of Felix Mendelssohn's 'Venezianisches Gondellied' (archived now in the Forum Calendar).

[jayne lee wilson]

YNS tends to produce a tight, disciplined and polished sound, especially with this orchestra; Bronfman magisterial initially though later seemed to match his tone to theirs; but perhaps this Liszt wasn't the last word for excitement?

It was a straight "good" I felt, brass clean and shiny, but I hope YNS opens the sound up rather more for the Bruckner. I've had mixed feelings about his recordings (and so have most reviewers); great admiration for his Metropolitain 6th, and his two (!) recordings of the 1873 Bruckner 3rd (Dresden & Montreal), though I found the 2nd a shade too safe and rhythmically 4-square. Odd choice of the Haas edition of the 2nd too.

[edashtav]

YNS tends to produce a tight, disciplined and polished sound, especially with this orchestra; Bronfman magisterial initially though later seemed to match his tone to theirs; but perhaps this Liszt wasn't the last word for excitement?

It was a straight "good" I felt, brass clean and shiny, but I hope YNS opens the sound up rather more for the Bruckner. I've had mixed feelings about his recordings (and so have most reviewers); great admiration for his Metropolitain 6th, and his two (!) recordings of the 1873 Bruckner 3rd (Dresden & Montreal), though I found the 2nd a shade too safe and rhythmically 4-square. Odd choice of the Haas edition of the 2nd too.

I’m in agreement with you, Jayne, over part I: safe, sound with super chargers labelled “to be used in emergencies, only!”
Let’s hope the Bruckner, “scores” above par for the YNS course.

[BBMmk2]

A very enjoyable Prom this evening. YNS has been with this(Rotterdam Philharmonic), for ten years? Did'nt even know he was there! Still, the RPO does sound very good indeed. I suppose the RCO steals the limelight!

[Goon525]

My first 'live' Prom for a couple of weeks, with the reasonable excuse that I’ve been at the Edinburgh Festival, where I heard the BBC SSO, Baltimore and Swedish Radio Symphony play in quick succession in the Usher Hall. I don’t know if it’s because of prolonged exposure to live orchestral music in perhaps the best acoustic in Britain, but I felt the (320k) sound from the Albert Hall tonight a distance below what I remember from before I went away. I really missed the FLAC stream this time, whereas previously I’d been just about willing to forgive its absence because a good, well-balanced sound was being broadcast. Not so much tonight, when I felt the sound lacked dynamics and the orchestra - roughly on a par with those I mention above, I imagine - had a somewhat bleached tonality. (Incidentally, anyone setting their volume by the announcer level must have found the music virtually inaudible - what are the Beeb thinking of?) Having said that, while the Liszt left me cold - not a fault of the performance, I’m just not a fan of the work, I did think the Bruckner was a pretty good effort, notwithstanding my reservations about the sound. It was the first Bruckner symphony I heard, via VPO/Bohm on four vinyl sides circa 1974, and I have a very big soft spot for it. Given the comments others have made, I even felt YNS made a decent stab at holding the finale together! I must try Jayne's patent method of figuring out its form, though.