Prom 50: Mozart's Clarinet Concerto & Mahler's Fifth Symphony 19.08.18

[Nick Armstrong]

Having now watched the Dausgaard/BBCSSO Mahler 5 twice all the way through, I've just watched my recording of the Mena/BBC Philharmonic Mahler 5 from 2014 (I was also at the latter).

It confirmed my recollection that, although I thought the Dausgaard performance more successful than others here, the Mena one was rather more gripping - an exceptional performance indeed. Alas, although the BBC Phil trumpets were magnificent, it was the principal horn who had a bit of an off night - unfortunate slips in the third movement... unlike the magnificent player in the BBCSSO this summer (glad to learn his name - Alberto Menendez Escribano - on this thread, thanks jonfan).

.

Glad to see I agree with myself (always reassuring), re-reading contemporaneous reactions to the Mena/BBC Phil performance on the relevant thread: http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...aud-Mena/page5

[jayne lee wilson]

Yes, I see from that 2014 Mena that I wrote -
...no discomfiting fudging of passagework or solo detail...

I just tried to listen to last weekend's Mahler 5 again (iplayer 320), the beginning of the 2nd movement... I didn't get far without wincing several times and soon gave up. Comment above applies without the "no"...

But apart from that there was a lack of interpretive assurance, tonal gleam or lustre; confidence and "togetherness"....all of which were abundantly present in their triumphant, visionary Nørgård 3rd...
I'm afraid that is where all the time and work went...to a wonderfully rewarding end...

For Heavens sake Cal, don't miss the Budapest FO/Fischer Mahler 4! In a great season it's already hard to choose "best of", but this 4th was almost unsurpassable for musical and technical perfection...

[Nick Armstrong]

For Heavens sake Cal, don't miss the Budapest FO/Fischer Mahler 4! In a great season it's already hard to choose "best of", but this 4th was almost unsurpassable for musical and technical perfection...[

I shan't! Caught a bit in the hurly-burly of this evening - I heard some astonishing and characterful horn playing.

It will be listened to!

[jonfan]

The Mahler 5 I treasure from the Proms was in 2011 with the Pittsburgh Orchestra and Manfred Honeck. A big, muscular and confident account with super playing in all departments; very much welcomed by the forum at the time.

[gradus]

Mahler 5 has appeared 31 times at the Proms from 1909 to date, 28 performances since 1968 (per proms Archive).
Best and poorest you've heard?
Best : Abbado/Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester (1991)
Poorest: Vanska/Minnesota orch (2006)

[Once Was 4]

Having now watched the Dausgaard/BBCSSO Mahler 5 twice all the way through, I've just watched my recording of the Mena/BBC Philharmonic Mahler 5 from 2014 (I was also at the latter).

It confirmed my recollection that, although I thought the Dausgaard performance more successful than others here, the Mena one was rather more gripping - an exceptional performance indeed. Alas, although the BBC Phil trumpets were magnificent, it was the principal horn who had a bit of an off night - unfortunate slips in the third movement... unlike the magnificent player in the BBCSSO this summer (glad to learn his name - Alberto Menendez Escribano - on this thread, thanks jonfan).

.

Glad to see I agree with myself (always reassuring), re-reading contemporaneous reactions to the Mena/BBC Phil performance on the relevant thread: http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...aud-Mena/page5

I am not sure what this proves but the 1st horn for the BBC Phil in 2014 and the BBC SSO in 2018 were one and the same - Alberto Menendez Escribano moved between the orchestras about 18 months ago.

[jonfan]

I am not sure what this proves but the 1st horn for the BBC Phil in 2014 and the BBC SSO in 2018 were one and the same - Alberto Menendez Escribano moved between the orchestras about 18 months ago.

It proves he’s improved in the four intervening years.

[Nick Armstrong]

I am not sure what this proves but the 1st horn for the BBC Phil in 2014 and the BBC SSO in 2018 were one and the same - Alberto Menendez Escribano moved between the orchestras about 18 months ago.

Well that's as may be, but having watched the two performances on video, there's no doubt at all that the soloist in the respective performances was not the same bloke!

[Simon B]

BBCPO Mahler 5 2014 - Andrew Budden 1st horn on that occasion IIRC. A job that those who do it are thoroughly welcome to. Nerves of steel...

Someone referred above to (the quite properly legendary) Maurice Murphy never splitting a note. Very rarely, yes. Never, no...

Reminds me of the horn section of the Staatskapelle Berlin - nearly flawless throughout the Proms Ring Cycle. Apart from the start of the last(?) act of Gotterdammerung which they collectively splattered all around the hall with such elan that it caused a thoroughly audible audience murmur. This was on the night where they had Stefan Dohr (principal horn of the BPO) playing 1st horn... Couldn't tell whether he contributed to the split fest, so festive was it.

Good luck to them all I reckon.

[Roslynmuse]

It's fascinating (as always) how the same performances can garner such varied responses, and how even matters that one would imagine to be objectively measurable greet the ear in different ways. I'm with those who found the basset clarinet sourly out-of-tune; and I'm also with those who were aware of but not particularly disturbed by the occasional brass blemish in the Mahler, putting it down to human fallibility and accepting it if not with gratitude then with some sympathy. Indeed, my experience of that performance was overall a positive one and I certainly didn't feel that the BBC SSO were an inferior band - there was a lot in it that spoke to me of a conductor with genuine ideas about how to realise Mahler's dots, and an often willing, responsive orchestra. The third movement sprawled far less than it often does. I found the Adagietto sincere and touching without being cloying, and the bizarre contrasts and sudden shifts in mood and colour in the final movement were stimulating to listen to. I'm afraid the clarinettist - whose playing I have admired in other broadcasts - did nothing for me in Mozart; her 'improvisations' at cadences and elsewhere struck me (admittedly not an expert in the Classical style) as perfunctory at best.

Just one further thought - a few comments have been made about the difficulty of programming two tricky programmes on consecutive nights. Surely the issue is the lead-in time and having adequate time for rehearsal? After all, the combined length of these two concerts is less than most Wagner operas, and not much longer than, say, Lulu.

[jonfan]

BBCPO Mahler 5 2014 - Andrew Budden 1st horn on that occasion IIRC. A job that those who do it are thoroughly welcome to. Nerves of steel...

Someone referred above to (the quite properly legendary) Maurice Murphy never splitting a note. Very rarely, yes. Never, no...

Reminds me of the horn section of the Staatskapelle Berlin - nearly flawless throughout the Proms Ring Cycle. Apart from the start of the last(?) act of Gotterdammerung which they collectively splattered all around the hall with such elan that it caused a thoroughly audible audience murmur. This was on the night where they had Stefan Dohr (principal horn of the BPO) playing 1st horn... Couldn't tell whether he contributed to the split fest, so festive was it.

Good luck to them all I reckon.

Thanks for clearing up the horn mystery and nice story about the Ring. When I started the horn as a second study instrument I was put in the college orchestra the second week of picking up the horn because I could get two notes correct consecutively. From that day I know the feeling of fear very well when playing exposed stuff.

[Constantbee]

So, was Van Wauwe sharp in the Mozart or not? Well, maybe ... slightly, but I wouldn't have known. Most noticeably in the very last note of the adagio, perhaps. Another online review (Mark Pullinger on bachtrack, whatever that is) describes her low notes as 'pale'. Putting 2 and 2 reviews together and remembering that the presenter said she'd been collaborating with a clarinet maker for the performance, I'd say she'd been having problems with the new basset and may have been worried about overblowing in the low register. That's all.

[Darkbloom]

BBCPO Mahler 5 2014 - Andrew Budden 1st horn on that occasion IIRC. A job that those who do it are thoroughly welcome to. Nerves of steel...

Someone referred above to (the quite properly legendary) Maurice Murphy never splitting a note. Very rarely, yes. Never, no...

Reminds me of the horn section of the Staatskapelle Berlin - nearly flawless throughout the Proms Ring Cycle. Apart from the start of the last(?) act of Gotterdammerung which they collectively splattered all around the hall with such elan that it caused a thoroughly audible audience murmur. This was on the night where they had Stefan Dohr (principal horn of the BPO) playing 1st horn... Couldn't tell whether he contributed to the split fest, so festive was it.

Good luck to them all I reckon.

Whenever I think back to that Ring, my first memory is of the panicked look in the eyes of Nina Stemme in Act 2 of Walkure when she forgot the words. It was probably the briefest moment but it felt like an age until Terfel whispered a prompt. Also, who can forget Barenboim's dust-up with the leader. If he can be like that on stage he must be a nightmare in rehearsal.