Prom 50: Mozart's Clarinet Concerto & Mahler's Fifth Symphony 19.08.18

[Petrushka]

My impression from watching on TV was that the Mahler was a brave attempt that didn't quite come off and tying it in so heavily with the 1987 Bernstein Prom was a piece of folie des grandeurs that was never going to work. JLW is almost certainly right that scheduling the Mahler and the Norgard for the BBCSSO on consecutive nights is a bridge too far. When Karajan said that even the BPO found the Mahler tiring you have to wonder whether expectations are just too high.

Yes, dazzling horn playing from the soloist in the third movement. I didn't catch his name but definitely someone to watch.

[jonfan]

Yes, dazzling horn playing from the soloist in the third movement. I didn't catch his name but definitely someone to watch.

First horn is Alberto Menendez Escribano. The Third horn that does the echos in movement three looked like Alex Hamilton from Opera North. The position is officially vacant at the moment.

[LMcD]

I waited for the tv broadcast to start and thoroughly enjoyed the whole concert. The concerto had a lightness and joy about the whole piece and lovely low basset sounds.
The symphony had lots of delicate moments and TD was most inspiring to watch. The first two movements had the darkness and despair which was relieved in the third by amazing controlled horn playing, going from very loud to the slightest whisper. The Adagio just right at 9 minutes (goodness knows what Bernstein’s 15 would have been like, I don’t really want to hear it). A transcendent finale beautifully built up to the great joy at the end. I didn’t notice general slips except the first trumpet didn’t have a good night. It didn’t spoil it for me. A great evening.

I don't wish to nitpick, but it must have been quite an achievement to slow the Adagietto down to Adagio and still dispatch it in 9 minutes.

[Bryn]

I don't wish to nitpick, but it must have been quite an achievement to slow the Adagietto down to Adagio and still dispatch it in 9 minutes.

Well let's face it. If one is used to Bernstein's version of Mahler, Adagio would be the more apposite tempo indication.

[LMcD]

Well let's face it. If one is used to Bernstein's version of Mahler, Adagio would be the more apposite tempo indication.

Does Bernstein still hold the record for the slowest-ever 'Enigma Variations'?

[Hornspieler]

It says Basset... In the concert programme I just bought.

Why play on an instrument which is wilidly out of tune in the lower register?

Kell, Thurston,Brymer, Bradbury,De Peyer, Thea King --- all great exponents of this work and set a standard of performance which was not even approached by this rendering (an apt description). For me, only the subtle accuracy of the two horns playing in the upper register was the only highlight of a woefully out of tune by the soloist and accompaniment by the strings of the BBC SSO Performance.

As for the Mahler, you cannot expect an orchestra of this size to give an acceptable rendering of this major symphonic work - but some highlights were evident.

HS

[jonfan]

Why play on an instrument which is wilidly out of tune in the lower register?

Kell, Thurston,Brymer, Bradbury,De Peyer, Thea King --- all great exponents of this work and set a standard of performance which was not even approached by this rendering (an apt description). For me, only the subtle accuracy of the two horns playing in the upper register was the only highlight of a woefully out of tune by the soloist and accompaniment by the strings of the BBC SSO Performance.

As for the Mahler, you cannot expect an orchestra of this size to give an acceptable rendering of this major symphonic work - but some highlights were evident.

HS

HS doesn’t seem to be in a happy mood if the evidence of the few posts are anything to go by. I don’t recognise your description of the of the Concerto at all;in Thea King's recording she uses a basset clarinet so a good precident from one of the finest players. Not sure why you thought the orchestra too small, seemed ok to me with everything clear.

[Hornspieler]

HS doesn’t seem to be in a happy mood if the evidence of the few posts are anything to go by. I don’t recognise your description of the of the Concerto at all;in Thea King's recording she uses a basset clarinet so a good precident from one of the finest players. Not sure why you thought the orchestra too small, seemed ok to me with everything clear.

Please do not confuse my first sentence with the second. I was not suggesting that all basset clarinets are wildly out of tune - only that the notes coming from the lower register were in last night's performance.

As far as the Mahler was concerned, I felt that this was a brave attempt - as are many performances by orchestras to give full measure to this symphony.
Some good playing, but not possible to produce the majesty of this symphony by this orchestra in these surroundings. I would have preferred to hear Mahler's 4th in last night's surroundings. I'm sure that the BBC SSO would have given a memorable account of a symphony well within their repertoire.

HS

[gradus]

The Mahler seemed to steadily improve as it progressed, ending splendidly.
Is Mahler's writing for the trumpet especially tricky? Not long ago Bychkov and the VPO took on Mahler 6 and the trumpet came to grief in the opening bars, so exposed.

[jonfan]

Well the clarinet seemed in tune across the full register to my ears. I would have thought the RAH one of the best venues for a large Mahler symphony as it is for Bruckner. The Hall adds portent and grandeur to the big moments, which can be painful on the ears in less resonant halls.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Is Mahler's writing for the trumpet especially tricky? Not long ago Bychkov and the VPO took on Mahler 6 and the trumpet came to grief in the opening bars, so exposed.

Yup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcATpZzMA1Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwqUQJUWRfI

[edashtav]

Please do not confuse my first sentence with the second. I was not suggesting that all basset clarinets are wildly out of tune - only that the notes coming from the lower register were in last night's performance.

As far as the Mahler was concerned, I felt that this was a brave attempt - as are many performances by orchestras to give full measure to this symphony.
Some good playing, but not possible to produce the majesty of this symphony by this orchestra in these surroundings. I would have preferred to hear Mahler's 4th in last night's surroundings. I'm sure that the BBC SSO would have given a memorable account of a symphony well within their repertoire.
HS

I have more than sympathy with HS over last night’s basset horn playing. The basset horn adds extra notes to the bottom of the clarinet’s range and gives extra body to that register. Counter intuitively, van Wauwe’s lower notes were thinner that her upper registers and sounded more edgy, lacking that velvety richness for which one yearns. Perhaps, she had reed problems for she seemed ill at ease and her whole performance came over as uncommitted and perfunctory. Given that the Mahler symphony didn’t fire consistently on all cylinders but spluttered and guttered, this Concert was for me one of the few “misses” of this fine Proms Season.

[BBMmk2]

I think the poor trumpet player must think, oh no, not this again! Felt sorry for him. I am sure he is more than capable of doing the sol, otherwise, he wouldn't be in the chair. Apart from that, and apart from the Mozart, I enjoyed the Mahler immensely.

[Beef Oven!]

I think the poor trumpet player must think, oh no, not this again! Felt sorry for him. I am sure he is more than capable of doing the sol, otherwise, he wouldn't be in the chair. Apart from that, and apart from the Mozart, I enjoyed the Mahler immensely.

Sympathy multiplies misery, as Nelson Mandela famously said. The trumpet blower had plenty of notice and ages to prepare ......

[Hornspieler]

I have more than sympathy with HS over last night’s basset horn playing. The basset horn adds extra notes to the bottom of the clarinet’s range and gives extra body to that register. Counter intuitively, van Wauwe’s lower notes were thinner that her upper registers and sounded more edgy, lacking that velvety richness for which one yearns. Perhaps, she had reed problems for she seemed ill at ease and her whole performance came over as uncommitted and perfunctory. Given that the Mahler symphony didn’t fire consistently on all cylinders but spluttered and guttered, this Concert was for me one of the few “misses” of this fine Proms Season.

Opinion or Reaction?
My previous posts regarding last night's prom contained both.
My reaction to the performance of the Mozart concerto was that the choice of Instrument was unfortunate and the result for me was one of disappointment.
I was expecting more and this rendering was one of disappointment; in comparison with many splendid readings of this important work by artistes of the past.

Mahler's 5th symphony, made famous by that wonderful film "Death in Venice" was, in my honest opinion
"A bridge too far" for a tired orchestra playing in unfamiliar territory - no doubt with insufficient "on the spot" rehearsal time.

Spare a thought for that poor trumpet player. Nowhere to hide. A camera almost shoved in his face
There are no winners, only losers.

I would compare that task with the high note for the 1st horn in
the last mvt of Dvorak s New World symphony.

"You get it or smash it all over the hall. In extremis, you leave it out and half of the "customers"
think that you played it so quietly that they could barely hear it.

No such luck for that poor trumpeter with a camera shoved in front of his instrument!

Rant over. Nice to see you posting again Ed!

Let's start a new thread: "Opinion or Reaction?"

HS