Proms 38 & 39: West Side Story 11.08.18

[cloughie]

I wonder how many in the audience said to one another on the way out after the show "yeah, it was alright, but bit of a curate's egg. Should've brought the score with me, then I could say for certain"

But how many of the audience said to one another, “I like West Side Story but I’m not sure if I liked that one”. They know what they saw and heard and don’t need a score to know if it matched their expectations!

[Ein Heldenleben]

I wonder how many in the audience said to one another on the way out after the show "yeah, it was alright, but bit of a curate's egg. Should've brought the score with me, then I could say for certain"

I think , as with the composer's own recording ( which I like ) they might have thought some of it ( the Riff and Anita for example ) a tiny bit operatic in delivery . But with or without a score they would have surely noticed the dialogue cuts and ( according to Petroc ) the complete absence of Jerome Robbins' choreography

[cloughie]

I wonder how many people view boards like this in order to get a better grasp of these sorts of concerts and are put off by the anal perspective that we put across about these shows? My worry is that it might be a significant number and they might not realise that we're just weirdos and they will think there's something wrong with the music that they don't understand and think it's something to do with them.

I would guess that very few people look at boards like this, it’s mainly us weirdos!

[Bryn]

Using Okheim's Razor, I'd say so few, that we might as well say none! They probably loved it and the idea about 'collegiate' looseness probably never occurred to them! And who takes a fucking score with them to West Side Story!!!

Hopefully, John Wilson did, but there again . . .

[Beef Oven!]

Hopefully, John Wilson did, but there again . . .

Have you never heard of 'Bernstein By Heart'?

Keep up, Bryn.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Sorry to be 'anal ' but you don't need a score to know if some one is singing with excessive vibrato, occasionally flat or in an unidiomatic overly 'operatic. way . However in a live concert audience if you are swept up in the drama it probably doesn't matter in. the slightest and won't affect your enjoyment . Unfortunately listening at home it does ....

[Bryn]

Have you never heard of 'Bernstein By Heart'?

Keep up, Bryn.

Make that 'Bernstein, Ramin, Kostal, Laurents and Sondheim by heart'.

[Beef Oven!]

Sorry to be 'anal ' but you don't need a score to know if some one is singing with excessive vibrato, occasionally flat or in an unidiomatic overly 'operatic. way . However in a live concert audience if you are swept up in the drama it probably doesn't matter in. the slightest and won't affect your enjoyment . Unfortunately listening at home it does ....

During a gig there will be bum notes, a bit of flat from the singers etc. Did you not realise that although you were at home, far away, you were actually listening to a live relay of a concert in London? Did you not understand what you were engaging in and was this a contributor as to why your enjoyment was affected?

[Serial_Apologist]

During a gig there will be bum notes, a bit of flat from the singers etc. Did you not realise that although you were at home, far away, you were actually listening to a live relay of a concert in London? Did you not understand what you were engaging in and was this a contributor as to why your enjoyment was affected?

I would have thought from the descriptions that it was the performance that was "anal", rather than those criticising it for the usual symptoms of anality, viz stiff unswinging time, bourgeois stiff collar operatic vibrato in a musical originally intended to be about inner city inter-racial conflict.

[Bryn]

During a gig there will be bum notes, a bit of flat from the singers etc. Did you not realise that although you were at home, far away, you were actually listening to a live relay of a concert in London? Did you not understand what you were engaging in and was this a contributor as to why your enjoyment was affected?

It's nearly 60 years since I first heard this work performed live (replete with choreography) at Her Majesty’s Theatre. At the age of 10, I found that performance far more engaging than what I heard tonight, though this one did have its moments (hence "curate's egg"). What really devalued the performance for me tonight was the relative lack of rhythmic freedom. As two of us here have observed, it was all a bit too four-square. The size of the orchestra may have contributed to this, but I suspect that Wilson's conducting played the main part. I will give the binaural version a try on Tuesday but do not hold out great hope that it will change my impression.

[Beef Oven!]

It's nearly 60 years since I first heard this work performed live (replete with choreography) at Her Majesty’s Theatre. At the age of 10, I found that performance far more engaging than what I heard tonight, though this one did have its moments (hence "curate's egg"). What really devalued the performance for me tonight was the relative lack of rhythmic freedom. As two of us here have observed, it was all a bit too four-square. The size of the orchestra may have contributed to this, but I suspect that Wilson's conducting played the main part. I will give the binaural version a try on Tuesday but do not hold out great hope that it will change my impression.

On many levels, you are comparing apples with pears ..........

[cloughie]

It's nearly 60 years since I first heard this work performed live (replete with choreography) at Her Majesty’s Theatre. At the age of 10, I found that performance far more engaging than what I heard tonight, though this one did have its moments (hence "curate's egg"). What really devalued the performance for me tonight was the relative lack of rhythmic freedom. As two of us here have observed, it was all a bit too four-square. The size of the orchestra may have contributed to this, but I suspect that Wilson's conducting played the main part. I will give the binaural version a try on Tuesday but do not hold out great hope that it will change my impression.

I think you may be right there Bryn. JW is an excellent musician, conductor and arranger. With your standard musical he is fine, but WSS is not a run of the mill musical it’s Bernstein. Lenny’s 1982 recording showed how it should be done, not necessarily the best combination of soloists but that orchestra and jazz combo really nailed it in a way that JW did not come near. Like you with the stage version at the age of 10 for me seeing the film at the age of 13 totally gripped me.

[Bryn]

I think you may be right there Bryn. JW is an excellent musician, conductor and arranger. With your standard musical he is fine, but WSS is not a run of the mill musical it’s Bernstein. Lenny’s 1982 recording showed how it should be done, not necessarily the best combination of soloists but that orchestra and jazz combo really nailed it in a way that JW did not come near. Like you with the stage version at the age of 10 for me seeing the film at the age of 13 totally gripped me.

I think I might give the John Owen Edwards a spin tomorrow. By no means perfect, but it does have that swing.

amazon.co.uk ASIN: B0000262XV, by the way. Very cheap and very complete. The BBC Radio 3 BaL choice for those wanting the full work. The closest to a 'big name' in the cast is Sally Burgess as "a voice", i.e. Somewhere. It also has the alternative motion picure versions of some numbers as bonus tracks. Far more idomatic than tonight's, with far greater 'mass appeal', to match. It's based on the very successful 1992 Leicester Haymarket Theatre production.

[edashtav]

I think you may be right there Bryn. JW is an excellent musician, conductor and arranger. With your standard musical he is fine, but WSS is not a run of the mill musical it’s Bernstein. Lenny’s 1982 recording showed how it should be done, not necessarily the best combination of soloists but that orchestra and jazz combo really nailed it in a way that JW did not come near. Like you with the stage version at the age of 10 for me seeing the film at the age of 13 totally gripped me.

That’s a helpful review, Cloughie!

[BBMmk2]

Apart from the central artists, the rest in my opinion, was done on the cheap.