Prom 36: Mahler, Wagner and Webern – 9.08.18

[jayne lee wilson]

What a strange statement. It was the presence of the Philharmonia which made me book this Prom and, as Jayne has rightly said, the orchestra and conductor were the true stars of the concert. It's clearly at the very top of the orchestral ladder (I won't get into the business of league tables) and that position has been strengthened by Salonen in recent years. There have been some wonderful new appoinments to the orchestra and the mixture of long-established players and new youthful ones has brought an amazing freshness to their sound.

Thankyou VK, (Mine's a Brandy, with the morning coffee, BTW)....I'm relieved to finally see some more appreciation of this staggering concert here. Those Wagner Tubas when Hunding entered were quite something weren't they? I couldn't wait for each reappearance. Something of a 2018 Proms highlight in themselves (and there have been many)....

Does anyone still need to be antagonistic to Classic FM? Surely not? It's R3's shallower populisms we need to get at!
It was a huge comfort to Mum in her last years and months, we used to listen to Rob Cowan's Classics together.
(Couldn't see that pantechnicon anywhere, Bryn. I probably wouldn't like it, but don't let it put you off listening to the Philharmonia!)

(Anyway, even if like me, you'd much rather hear all 5 of the Mahler 10 movements, do seek this excerpt out. With Webern as a lead-in (and much more) it is remarkable....
The kind of orchestral sound, and musical realisation, (at least on R3 HDs) that fills the room; pins you to your chair; reminds you just how remarkable an inspiration, and a new Mahlerian direction, the 10th was...

[HighlandDougie]

It was the presence of the Philharmonia which made me book this Prom and, as Jayne has rightly said, the orchestra and conductor were the true stars of the concert. It's clearly at the very top of the orchestral ladder (I won't get into the business of league tables) and that position has been strengthened by Salonen in recent years. There have been some wonderful new appointments to the orchestra and the mixture of long-established players and new youthful ones has brought an amazing freshness to their sound.

My 95 year old ma-in-law is currently in residence so no chance to listen to this yet. But, having been (almost literally as in the fourth row of the stalls) blown away by Salonen's "Gürrelieder" in the RFH in late June, I would wholly endorse these comments about the Philharmonia's current form - great to see young players among the well-known regulars.

[Darkbloom]

I'm looking forward to listening to this later. I think the Phlharmonia have brought out the best in Salonen, who previously struck me a rather a chilly conductor. His performances with the LA Phil often sounded sterile and disengaged to me. It seems that there's only so much attention to go go round, though, and his achievements haven't quite got the recognition they deserve among the London orchestras. I think people will look back in years to come and speak about his tenure in the same way they talk about Klemperer's.

[teamsaint]

The Philharmonia are routinely excellent. And the lorry, which I came upon by accident a while ago, is very impressive , FWIW. I think it was in Penzance now I think about it, but I could be mistaken.
Will try to catch up with the Prom later.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thanking you to all who have commented so far. I haven't heard this concert yet, but it's there on the hard drive, and it sounds mouth-wateringly good.

I might start with the Webern, and then move on to the chunks - though if they're as good as forumites say, it will be very frustrating not to have had the full works.

[VodkaDilc]

Thanking you to all who have commented so far. I haven't heard this concert yet, but it's there on the hard drive, and it sounds mouth-wateringly good.

I might start with the Webern, and then move on to the chunks - though if they're as good as forumites say, it will be very frustrating not to have had the full works.

I am glad that others enjoyed the concert as much as I did. Frustrating perhaps, but I wonder whether those of us in the hall could have faced another two acts of Wagner at 9.40 last night.

[cloughie]

The Philharmonia are routinely excellent. And the lorry, which I came upon by accident a while ago, is very impressive , FWIW. I think it was in Penzance now I think about it, but I could be mistaken.
Will try to catch up with the Prom later.

Was it the Philharmonia that did the virtual tour with the Rite of Spring a year or two back - they pitched up in Lemon Quay in Truro.

[VodkaDilc]

Thankyou VK, (Mine's a Brandy, with the morning coffee, BTW)....I'm relieved to finally see some more appreciation of this staggering concert here. Those Wagner Tubas when Hunding entered were quite something weren't they? I couldn't wait for each reappearance. Something of a 2018 Proms highlight in themselves (and there have been many)....

I'm glad our opinions are similar. I'm not sure if you were in the hall or listening at home, but if you were not there, it's worth pointing out that the physical appearance of Hunding, striding onto the stage along with his motif, added to the general impact. It was a good move to start the Wagner with only two soloists on stage.

It could not be described as semi-staged, but there were some dramatic aspects: Sieglinde's first appearance, wrapped in a shawl (possibly not the right term - female clothing is not one of my specialities); the interaction between the soloists; and the embrace between the siblings at the end. Also not menioned so far were the suberbly matched soloists; I could not imagine a better trio.

[VodkaDilc]

My 95 year old ma-in-law is currently in residence so no chance to listen to this yet. But, having been (almost literally as in the fourth row of the stalls) blown away by Salonen's "Gürrelieder" in the RFH in late June, I would wholly endorse these comments about the Philharmonia's current form - great to see young players among the well-known regulars.

The orchestra has managed to make some suberb appointments, some extremely young and extremely good. I am particuarly thinking of the newish principal oboe (though he was not playing last night and was replaced by an equally sensitive player, Jenny Galloway), the principal timpanist and, very recently, the principal bass trombone.

I remember discussions on here in 2016, when the Philharmonia played The Rite of Spring at the RFH and many of us were impressed by the stunning timpanist, Antoine Siguré, who at that time was still on trial for the position he now holds. Astonishingly he mentioned in last night's programme that he had never played it until that concert; and also that Salonen assumed they all knew it backwards, so hardly spent any rehearsal time on it. I remember that his playing was one of the most memorable features of a wonderful Stravinsky performance.

This is truly a great orchestra.

[edashtav]

So Salonen and The Philharmonia were the true stars for me tonight.
***
But the Mahler 10 excerpt was beyond praise, beyond criticism...as crushingly, heartbreakingly, tragically beautiful as I've ever heard it, the shattered world that reveals its rifts at the climax truly and appallingly alien....

The Webern Op.10, flawlessly diamond-cut, already breathes the thin air from another planet; which Salonen seemed to recognise, calling it a "white dwarf" formed from a Mahlerian collapsing star...

I agree with your assessments of the Webern and the Mahler, superlatively played and conducted with great insights by
E.-P.. I do worry about the order of this concert whilst understanding that it must be so! Firstly, Wagner laid siege to tonality, then Mahler stretched and elongated it to its elastic limit, and ... finally, Webern atomised it into a myriad of coloured molecules. I don’t like to see Webern in Pole position, because: he requires one’s best concentration and that’s not easily achieved on first reaching one’s seat and settling naughty iPhonic neighbours with Paddington Bear stares whilst distributing cough sweets and tissues as necessary. There’s nought like a good, old-fashioned, noisy Overture to cover “squeaky bum time”. Thank goodness, E.-P. doesn't believe that Le Le Sacre lies at the outer edge of audiences’ tolerance of so-called Modern Music. Without his programming wisdom, this Prom season would have no works by the 2nd Viennese School. Worse still, many of the group’s pupils, disciples, and friends have gone missing, too: I instance Eisler, Gerhard, Dallapiccola, Skalkottas, Boulez, Maderna,and Nono. In these appalling days, one is more likely to encounter No, No Nanette!
I put to fellow Boarders that this calamitous situation has not occurred since the reforms instituted by William Glock.
LONG MAY IT NOT CONTINUE.

[teamsaint]

I agree with your assessments of the Webern and the Mahler, superlatively played and conducted with great insights by
E.-P.. I do worry about the order of this concert whilst understanding that it must be so! Firstly, Wagner laid siege to tonality, then Mahler stretched and elongated it to its elastic limit, and ... finally, Webern atomised it into a myriad of coloured molecules. I don’t like to see Webern in Pole position, because: he requires one’s best concentration and that’s not easily achieved on first reaching one’s seat and settling naughty iPhonic neighbours with Paddington Bear stares whilst distributing cough sweets and tissues as necessary. There’s nought like a good, old-fashioned, noisy Overture to cover “squeaky bum time”. Thank goodness, E.-P. doesn't believe that Le Le Sacre lies at the outer edge of audiences’ tolerance of so-called Modern Music. Without his programming wisdom, this Prom season would have no works by the 2nd Viennese School. Worse still, many of the group’s pupils, disciples, and friends have gone missing, too: I instance Eisler, Gerhard, Dallapiccola, Skalkottas, Boulez, Maderna,and Nono. In these appalling days, one is more likely to encounter No, No Nanette!
I put to fellow Boarders that this calamitous situation has not occurred since the reforms instituted by William Glock.
LONG MAY IT NOT CONTINUE.

Ed, I share your dismay at predictable and repetitive concert programming, but our consolation these days is to be able to fall back on a vast array of recorded music, and things like the Avant Garde Project, which would keep even the most curious mind busy for a very long time. The torch can still be carried , just in other ways.

[teamsaint]

Was it the Philharmonia that did the virtual tour with the Rite of Spring a year or two back - they pitched up in Lemon Quay in Truro.

https://www.philharmonia.co.uk/digital/in_the_community/project_overview

This must have been it.

[edashtav]

Ed, I share your dismay at predictable and repetitive concert programming, but our consolation these days is to be able to fall back on a vast array of recorded music, and things like the Avant Garde Project, which would keep even the most curious mind busy for a very long time. The torch can still be carried , just in other ways.

We can fall back on...absolutely, ts, but what of the coming generations?
There is nothing like discovering the Greats, in the flesh, altogether.
Promming Promotes and Promulgates

[Serial_Apologist]

Ed, I share your dismay at predictable and repetitive concert programming, but our consolation these days is to be able to fall back on a vast array of recorded music, and things like the Avant Garde Project, which would keep even the most curious mind busy for a very long time. The torch can still be carried , just in other ways.

I know I've said this before, (ho hum), but were it not for us having informed ourselves with the help of the Radio 3 of past and more enlightening times, we would not know enough to avail ourselves of those alternatives. Up against the publicity machine's populist dilutings, not having either the mass or muscle we can't amount to singleminded counterpurveyors of developing tastes.

Edashtav says the same as me, in fewer words.

[teamsaint]

I know I've said this before, (ho hum), but were it not for us having informed ourselves with the help of the Radio 3 of past and more enlightening times, we would not know enough to avail ourselves of those alternatives. Up against the publicity machine's populist dilutings, not having either the mass or muscle we can't amount to singleminded counterpurveyors of developing tastes.

Edashtav says the same as me, in fewer words.

I know the power of the maas media only too well S-A, from my working life, and how its absence can hamper.
But we can’t wait around, and must do what ( little) we can. From small things big things one day come, as Springsteen said.