Prom 21: An Alpine Symphony – 30.07.18

[BBMmk2]

Georg Freidrich Haas, a has been, methinks.

[jayne lee wilson]

On a first hearing the Haas Concerto Grosso No.1 sounded to these ears as a slow-moving, spectralist(**) meditation on sonority, which became climactically more active and dynamic around 2/3 the way through, finally fragmenting into a sort-of coda which stopped abruptly....

I didn't think of mountains much, perhaps not surprising as Haas says (according to the presenter) that he doesn't love them, as "they steal the light, are dangerous and cold......"
Familiarity, contempt etc.

(**)
(reminded me of Dusapin and Murail..)

***
Orchestral delicacy the obvious stylistic feature of the Mozart k.286, very much the Stereo-Echo-Serenade at home, rather than the spatial spectacle it was exploited for in-hall.
For radio it was perhaps a bit visual, as DJs used to say.

Musically a charming diversion, but I couldn't help thinking about the Schumann 4-Horn Konzertstück as an obvious and better opener...

[bluestateprommer]

The BBC SSO (including the multiple extra brass players; Kate Molleson mentioned 2x that there were 21 horn players in all for the Strauss) just played Eine Alpensinfonie very well. Yet something about Ilan Volkov's interpretation struck me as a bit "gilb" for much of it, if that makes sense. Not that one has to contemplate every phrase for depth in this work; maybe Volkov wanted to remove any sense of over-heaviness about the work, to make it a young person's trek up the mountain, or something like that.

The GFH did have a more contemplative, perhaps ritualistic quality about it, to add to JLW's "spectral" characterization. Granted with the types of instruments involved, one perhaps shouldn't expect Mozart horn concerto-like fast writing. Cute encore from one of the Alphorn Quartet musicians, Lioba by Balthasar Streiff (duly archived in the Forum Calendar). The binaural experience certainly made itself felt with the Mozart.

[edashtav]

Haas and Harry’s Hedgehogs

On a first hearing the Haas Concerto Grosso No.1 sounded to these ears as a slow-moving, spectralist(**) meditation on sonority, which became climactically more active and dynamic around 2/3 the way through, finally fragmenting into a sort-of coda which stopped abruptly....

I didn't think of mountains much, perhaps not surprising as Haas says (according to the presenter) that he doesn't love them, as "they steal the light, are dangerous and cold......"
Familiarity, contempt etc.

(**)
(reminded me of Dusapin and Murail..)

I’m mainly in agreement, Jayne but question you
RnSpectral comparisons: Dusapin and Murail are far ahead of Haas in terms of invention and structure.

Yes, Herr Haas, alphorns are not the most nimble of instruments but that doesn’t mean that your piece must progress at the pace of Bruckner overdosing on Mogadon. I had plenty of time to think, and conjured an image of Harry Birtwistle writing a piece for four rutting hedgehogs and orchestra. He’d have accepted that hedgehogs mate at their own lento rate, but he’d have accompanied them and, possibly, egged th3m one with rutting and other material in different forms and at different tempi across the sections of the orchestra. Minimalism doesn’t imply mimimal invention spread over maximal time.
Haas’s concerto was a snore-fest.
Now: there’s a thought... Harry would have included snoring hedgehogs, sleeping after lengthycoitus non interruptus. I can tell you from personal experience ... it’s one heck of a hullabaloo of grunts, sliding tones and cross rhythms.

However, I loved the Mozart but turned off the R.Strauss which haas its moments but... is not for snowflakes.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The BBC SSO (including the multiple extra brass players; Kate Molleson mentioned 2x that there were 21 horn players in all for the Strauss) just played Eine Alpensinfonie very well. Yet something about Ilan Volkov's interpretation struck me as a bit "gilb" for much of it, if that makes sense. Not that one has to contemplate every phrase for depth in this work; maybe Volkov wanted to remove any sense of over-heaviness about the work, to make it a young person's trek up the mountain, or something like that.

A fine interpretation, but there was some imprecision, possible due to some tempi being too brisk for the RAH.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The problem I found with the Haas work seemed to stem from the composer's somewhat half-hearted exploration of the microtonal overtones; the composer repeatedly having to (or choosing to) build up to these notes from lower, more "conventional" pitches, and (because of the size of the instruments) having to take some time to reach the overtones to get them to "speak". So after ten minutes, what the piece "did" was already over - but you can't gather four of these instruments and put them with a symphony orchestra only to write a ten-minute piece, so the remaining twenty minutes was just more of the same.

As MrGG has shown with his link to the Arkady Shilkloper video in #9, there are far more imaginative and versatile things a Musician can do with these instruments.

[richardfinegold]

I’m mainly in agreement, Jayne but question you
RnSpectral comparisons: Dusapin and Murail are far ahead of Haas in terms of invention and structure.

Yes, Herr Haas, alphorns are not the most nimble of instruments but that doesn’t mean that your piece must progress at the pace of Bruckner overdosing on Mogadon. I had plenty of time to think, and conjured an image of Harry Birtwistle writing a piece for four rutting hedgehogs and orchestra. He’d have accepted that hedgehogs mate at their own lento rate, but he’d have accompanied them and, possibly, egged th3m one with rutting and other material in different forms and at...
Now: there’s a thought... Harry would have included snoring hedgehogs, sleeping after lengthycoitus non interruptus. I can tell you from personal experience ... it’s one heck of a hullabaloo of grunts, sliding tones and cross rhythms.

However, I loved the Mozart but turned off the R.Strauss which haas its moments but... is not for snowflakes.

Perhaps one day you will care to share with us the circumstances of how you acquired your expertise with rutting hedgehogs...

[cloughie]

A fine interpretation, but there was some imprecision, possible due to some tempi being too brisk for the RAH.

You see Alps, Lorin got it right!

[kernelbogey]

A fine interpretation, but there was some imprecision, possible due to some tempi being too brisk for the RAH.

Just curious if you were in the hall; and, indeed, how far you will travel to hear it live.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

You see Alps, Lorin got it right!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just curious if you were in the hall; and, indeed, how far you will travel to hear it live.

I've heard it live several times at the Proms, the most recent being VPO/Haitink. But the one that eclipses them all was the Halle/BBC Phil joint performance in the Bridgewater Hall. A monumental performance.

But no, I wasn't there last night.

[kernelbogey]

I've heard it live several times at the Proms, the most recent being VPO/Haitink. But the one that eclipses them all was the Halle/BBC Phil joint performance in the Bridgewater Hall. A monumental performance.

But no, I wasn't there last night.

[LaurieWatt]

A fine interpretation, but there was some imprecision, possible due to some tempi being too brisk for the RAH.

Hardly for me to disagree with one I regard as the ultimate authority on this piece, but I was there, and, much as I enjoyed much fine playing, I was disappointed, firstly, by the string strength which was far below (54) Strauss's requirement of 70 which showed in much underpowered string lines especially at the bottom end, which were submerged by the wind and brass. The piece started at too high a dynamic level and dawn was gone and past before one knew it, spoiling the great sunrise effect. Volkov pulled his punches on the grand vistas - I mean the 2nd bass trombone was entirely a waste of money on this showing, those great bass trombone moments going for nothing. The off-stage horns were good (nice tam-tam immediately after!), the organ great and the storm was better, too, although the thunder machine was nicely noisy if perfunctory.

It was all a bit episodic. Of course, the piece is episodic but so much more can be made of the structure to make it an organic whole. Just listen to Vladimir Jurowski's new recording on the LPO label to hear, among other fine things, wonderfully balanced strings (he used 72 - an extra cello and an extra double bass - 11 of them!). I do agree, however, that the combined Halle and BBCPO performance from Manchester was a knock-out; I was there.

[kernelbogey]

I do agree, however, that the combined Halle and BBCPO performance from Manchester was a knock-out; I was there.

Is a recording available...?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Hardly for me to disagree with one I regard as the ultimate authority on this piece, but I was there...

I shall listen again, and will avoid hasty judgements in future, based on listening whilst dealing with the cat. Your experience outranks mine. As you say, you were there.