Prom 18: Currentzis conducts Beethoven – 28.07.18

[DracoM]

Agree with Jayne, partic on Fifth. Pity some of the press reviews were not as perceptive.

[Maclintick]

[QUOTE=jayne lee wilson;690180]PROM 18. BEETHOVEN SYMPHONIES 2 & 5. MUSICAETERNA/CURRENTZIS. Radio 3 HDs Live relay.

Dynamics were less carefully-judged or contrasted than in No.2; the double-bass buzz in the 5th’s finale, more snorting than buzzing, was another distraction.

Them weren't the double-basses, Jayne, but the amazingly puissant contrabassoon in the 5th's finale, whose presumably "authentic" eructations brought a smile to the faces of many punters around me, & recalled that good Liverpudlian Sir Thomas Beecham's witticism after a similarly-unedifying explosion from a contra-player during one of his rehearsals "Thank you - & would you now please pull the chain ?". (Possible explication needed here for younger readers who will have no memory of mid-20th Cent lavatorial technology).This intimidatingly-countenanced performer appeared rather as though he were a member of Putin's Novosibirsk RPG detachment.

Very exciting in the hall, despite myriad bloopers, but the audience loved it, nevertheless. Did it live up to the hype ? NO ! Was it a triumph of style over substance ? YES. Currentzis's antics were often irrelevant & deplorable. "Punk &
Provocative" POSSIBLY. The punk aesthetic was that anyone, however untalented in musical competence, was theoretically capable of "expressing themselves" in such a way that the intention overcame any deficiencies in the execution. I rest my case,M'Lud...

[kernelbogey]

People like Jayne should be running Radio 3.

If only....

[kernelbogey]

the amazingly puissant contrabassoon in the 5th's finale

Thanks, Maclintick: a mystery solved. It was quite prominent in my R3 hearing.

[oddoneout]

Them weren't the double-basses, Jayne, but the amazingly puissant contrabassoon

Ah, so perhaps my speakers aren't quite as bad as I thought they were...

[jayne lee wilson]

Aha! It was him.....!

https://www.facebook.com/ChrisNorth1955/posts/10155648198532596

[kernelbogey]

This prom is now available on the binaural website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06drb3s

in two streams; the LvB 7 Finale encore is included at the end of the fifth.

For me, it's held up well on a second hearing.

[Bryn]

This prom is now available on the binaural website

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06drb3s

in two streams; the LvB 7 Finale encore is included at the end of the fifth.

For me, it's held up well on a second hearing.

Thanks for the alert. I had not checked lately.

[kernelbogey]

Thanks for the alert. I had not checked lately.

It took them a few days, so I'm hoping that Eine Alpensymphonie will appear soon.

[bluestateprommer]

Given the various auras (aurae?) surrounding this Prom, I avoided reading any comments in this thread or reviews elsewhere before giving TC and his merry band an iPlayer listen. I couldn't quite avoid glancing at the Beeb's blurbs, though, when putting the Forum Calendar together and such. In other words, I tried to dive into this Prom with as little bias as possible, except that seeing well in advance the short running time biased me in advance against TC (not his band, though).

With that said, the performances were actually pretty good. Only a few aspects of TC's interpretations struck me as really off-the-wall. For example, I thought that I heard an extra repeated section in the Scherzo of op. 36. There were a few sudden drops to pianissimo for a bar or two that I don't recall from other readings, HIPP-ster or otherwise. However, the fact that TC was fairly "mainstream" in his HIPP-ness registered as something of a mildly annoyed reaction with me, in that it wasn't as "punk" or provocative to me as the blurbs led one to believe. If anything, MG-T's LvB 5 last summer was much more "punk" and provocative than TC, with truly divided reactions such as discussed on the Forum to match. (Plus, remember that her CBSO Prom then was much more generous in running time, not to mention a much more imaginative program.)

One clue to the comments about slips of ensemble may have been implicit in the pre-performance chit-chat by Martin Handley with the orchestra's flutist, Laura Pou. She mentioned at one point that TC "likes to conduct every note", or words to that effect. In other words, TC may well have over-rehearsed the ensemble and tired them unnecessarily before the concert. (This contrasts with what I commented, in speculation, about Sakari Oramo and the BBC SO about their Mozart & Bruckner concert.) I recall that one of the Forumites likes to quote a line attributed to Karajan as follows:

"The art of conducting consists of knowing when to conduct and when to let the musicians play."

I also recalled a comment by Boult about Toscanini's rehearsal methods when Toscanini first conducted the BBC SO, and Boult had attended Toscanini's rehearsals:

"His whole rehearsal scheme is a model of economy and reasonableness, granted his insistent demand for nothing less than his ideal...He will never repeat one bar at rehearsal after he has been once satisfied."

Maybe TC needs to take a page from that book.

On the running time question, I felt that if TC had at least added even a short overture at the start (e.g. Fidelio, Consecration of the House), that at least would have mitigated even the appearance of short running time a bit, if not completely addressing it. I didn't know in advance, of course, that the rather generous encore of the finale of LvB 7 was in the wings. There was nothing "punk" about the reading there at all, and if anything, it was refreshingly straightforward. Or maybe the musicians were worn out from all the day's rehearsals and needed simply to be "allowed to play".

The relative amount of my grousing here shouldn't (even though it kind of does) obscure the merits of the performances themselves. It's just that one needs to scrape away the PR and the hype around them, I guess.

[LMcD]

Given the various auras (aurae?) surrounding this Prom, I avoided reading any comments in this thread or reviews elsewhere before giving TC and his merry band an iPlayer listen. I couldn't quite avoid glancing at the Beeb's blurbs, though, when putting the Forum Calendar together and such. In other words, I tried to dive into this Prom with as little bias as possible, except that seeing well in advance the short running time biased me in advance against TC (not his band, though).

With that said, the performances were actually pretty good. Only a few aspects of TC's interpretations struck me as really off-the-wall. For example, I thought that I heard an extra repeated section in the Scherzo of op. 36. There were a few sudden drops to pianissimo for a bar or two that I don't recall from other readings, HIPP-ster or otherwise. However, the fact that TC was fairly "mainstream" in his HIPP-ness registered as something of a mildly annoyed reaction with me, in that it wasn't as "punk" or provocative to me as the blurbs led one to believe. If anything, MG-T's LvB 5 last summer was much more "punk" and provocative than TC, with truly divided reactions such as discussed on the Forum to match. (Plus, remember that her CBSO Prom then was much more generous in running time, not to mention a much more imaginative program.)

One clue to the comments about slips of ensemble may have been implicit in the pre-performance chit-chat by Martin Handley with the orchestra's flutist, Laura Pou. She mentioned at one point that TC "likes to conduct every note", or words to that effect. In other words, TC may well have over-rehearsed the ensemble and tired them unnecessarily before the concert. (This contrasts with what I commented, in speculation, about Sakari Oramo and the BBC SO about their Mozart & Bruckner concert.) I recall that one of the Forumites likes to quote a line attributed to Karajan as follows:

"The art of conducting consists of knowing when to conduct and when to let the musicians play."

I also recalled a comment by Boult about Toscanini's rehearsal methods when Toscanini first conducted the BBC SO, and Boult had attended Toscanini's rehearsals:



Maybe TC needs to take a page from that book.

On the running time question, I felt that if TC had at least added even a short overture at the start (e.g. Fidelio, Consecration of the House), that at least would have mitigated even the appearance of short running time a bit, if not completely addressing it. I didn't know in advance, of course, that the rather generous encore of the finale of LvB 7 was in the wings. There was nothing "punk" about the reading there at all, and if anything, it was refreshingly straightforward. Or maybe the musicians were worn out from all the day's rehearsals and needed simply to be "allowed to play".

The relative amount of my grousing here shouldn't (even though it kind of does) obscure the merits of the performances themselves. It's just that one needs to scrape away the PR and the hype around them, I guess.

I'm afraid that's been true of many of this year's concerts. Some people don't seem to realize that the music and its performance will in all probability be exciting or satisfying enough without the need to go into some kind of hyperdrive when trailing/previewing/discussing it.