Prom 18: Currentzis conducts Beethoven – 28.07.18

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A Host Writes: I have Parried the posts in which some Forumistas reached for their Holsters about comments made by other Forumistas who were having a Lark; I trust this will make this Thread a more Pastoral one. If I've been successful, this will mean that this announcement will make absolutely no sense to anyone - but after a third of a Century as a teacher, I'm very used to that experience.

[oddoneout]

A Host Writes: I have Parried the posts in which some Forumistas reached for their Holsters about comments made by other Forumistas who were having a Lark; I trust this will make this Thread a more Pastoral one. If I've been successful, this will mean that this announcement will make absolutely no sense to anyone - but after a third of a Century as a teacher, I'm very used to that experience.

Thank you, I have just availed myself of the tidying up to comment in the right place on something that was for a while mistakenly here.

[kernelbogey]

I was not in the hall, so am relying purely on a comment made in the introduction to tonight's broadcast*, i.e.that the brass and wind appeared to be period, but the strings "normal". I will check back to make sure I did not mishear. If anyone here attended, perhaps they might comment.

* Hmm. Not Martin Handley, so perhaps it was sid durting the Proms Extra porgramm on BBC2.

I also heard Martin say this, though cannot recall exactly when - I think (possibly) while waiting for the conductor before the LvB 2.

This morning on Breakfast, his final word on the performance was 'more style than substance'. I do wonder (much as I like him as a presenter) whether he should be saying this on air, especially having presented that concert.

I was listening to the Prom, unusually, on headphones, streamed via iTunes, and heard an unusual amount of detail (including the rustle of pages turning, etc) - although some of this may be down to my choice of medium I did believe at the time that I was hearing detail that I had not been aware of before. Yes, some phrases were 'pulled about' but I found the overall effect thrilling.

[cloughie]

Bryn - I have yet to hear Sid Durting - sounds more like a character from ‘The Goons’ or ‘Round the Horne’ than a R3 presenter!

[Petrushka]

Publicity is important out of respect for the artists

That's a rum way of looking at the pre-concert blurb for this particular concert as it set up expectations that were unlikely to be fulfilled. Any newbie booking a ticket for this concert on the basis of it would have been disappointed and might have decided the Proms isn't for them. R3 would be more popular if they treated their audience like adults. It worked for me in my teens.

[oddoneout]

Martin Handley was commenting this morning on the Currentzis concert - he seemed to be suffering from Chinese takeaway syndrome - satisfied at the time but not necessarily for long.
Whatever the pros and cons, on the basis of what I heard last night the approach does perhaps address some of the issues being discussed at present about the image and perceived lack of inclusiveness(for want of a better term) of 'classical' concerts.

[Dave2002]

Thank you, I have just availed myself of the tidying up to comment in the right place on something that was for a while mistakenly here.

Oooh - stop larking about!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Do you know I thought I heard "the more style than substance " remark just before 09.00 . I was only half listening and thought he can't be talking about last nights prom as presenters never , as far as I can remember , pass negative comments on performers in BBC concerts who, after all, have been hired by the BBC .
I like period instrument performances for many of the reasons outlined by other forumites . But there is a problem with live proms presentation in the spaces of the RAH and also with mike placement . Take the scherzo of the 5th - all sorts of woodwind details like odd notes from the bassoon emerged that LVB could not have wanted foregrounded. There was a similar phenomenon in the Aurora Eroica ( I think it was ) last year . By the encore the orchestra was wilting with many wrong notes and duff intonation. If they had really been rehearsing for three hours in the heat of the hall I am hardly surprised . But all in all a very interesting concert.

[DracoM]

<< Incidentally, it matters not to me whether applause between movements is historically correct or not; I deplore the dim-witted compulsion to clap after each and every movement. It is one reason why I haven't bothered booking tickets for any Proms over the past couple of years. >>

Sorry, but I agree with that.

Last night I accessed the Beethoven on iPlayer and turned down the applause between movements. Made a huge difference to the intensity of both music and performance.

[oddoneout]

If they had really been rehearsing for three hours in the heat of the hall I am hardly surprised

I don't think that heat was the problem - we were told that the aircon was pretty fierce and the orchestra remarked on entering the hall that it was cold - but hours of playing at that intensity did seem to take its toll by the encore which I felt detracted from what had gone before.

[jonfan]

That's a rum way of looking at the pre-concert blurb for this particular concert as it set up expectations that were unlikely to be fulfilled. Any newbie booking a ticket for this concert on the basis of it would have been disappointed and might have decided the Proms isn't for them. R3 would be more popular if they treated their audience like adults. It worked for me in my teens.

So a successful concert on your terms is that no one turns up because they haven’t heard about it. Even the most unlikely blurb is useful to arouse interest, as it certainly has done here. Yes Radio 3 and The Third Programme worked for me only because I got the info from Radio Times. Apparently real adults get their info about programmes in another very mysterious way.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I am not a string player but I guess in some ways too cold is even worse ! If modern players can't sustain that intensity what can we infer from that about 18th / 19th century practice with presumably much less fit and healthy , and well trained performers ? I suspect the celebrated marathon premiere of the 5th would either have been considerably more laid back or audiences were a whole lot more tolerant in terms of trading accuracy for excitement. And if you look at Beethoven's metronome markings.....lets not go there . Just hearing Tom S's irritating trail yet again ." Beethoven ,but not as you know it " . Well pretty much as we know it really ..

[DracoM]

I don't think that heat was the problem - we were told that the aircon was pretty fierce and the orchestra remarked on entering the hall that it was cold - but hours of playing at that intensity did seem to take its toll by the encore which I felt detracted from what had gone before.

Actually, there were a number of ....ahem.....infelicities in both ensemble and tuning throughout, particularly the 5th.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The website blurb was presumably based on Currentzis' recordings of Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, and Mozart - the writers preparing readers for something rather more "radical" than what we got last night. As a result, I found that I was initially a bit disappointed with the concert as I was listening to it last night - thinking to myself "When's he going to be iconoclastic?" much of the time, rather than listening to the performance itself.

So I listened again this morning to hear what was actually performed, and greatly enjoyed it, finding it thrilling, insightful, and life-affirming. In particular, the performance of the Fifth had none of the narcissistic deviations from the score that Gražinytė-Tyla used as a substitute for insight last year, and had much greater gusto and gutso than many a "safer" performance and recording I've heard. I would have loved to have been there. Less keen on the inter-movement applause (although, praise be, it was enthusiastic rather than that timid "should we be doing this" drizzle that sometimes happens) but whilst I might have felt a great desire to whoop with enthusiasm after the first movement of the Second as did one member of the audience, I would have refrained from doing so, as I'm no longer ten years old.

Yes, ridiculously short-measure, and not as life-changing as the performances by Krivine, van Immerseel, or Bruggens (how I envy Dave's experience of hearing him Live), but, away from infantile hype, excellent performances in their own terms.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Martin [Handley]'s final word on the performance was 'more style than substance'.

Perhaps you didn't have to be there?