Prom 18: Currentzis conducts Beethoven – 28.07.18

[pilamenon]

Although in a sense exciting I found the constant exaggerated sforzandi , subito piani etc really wearing on the ear . I must be getting old...

That was my impression, too, of the 2nd - and I love many period Beethoven performances - Anima Eterna's, and Bruggen's, for example.

[gedsmk]

Fine idea, if I may say so.

totally on board with this, especially if it means skipping stuff like this "becomes something altogether more punk and provocative".

[oddoneout]

Re the subject of BBC hype, I'm considering not including these decriptions on the Proms OPs.

Good idea, save yourself the effort. They seem to be joining the weather reports in being less and less useful and having little relationship to reality.

[Tony Halstead]

Replying to Alpie and Bryn: yes, please!

Why oh why do 'period instruments' have to sound so UGLY?
For more than half of my 'professional musical life' ( about 37 of 73 years) I have played in period instrument concerts and recordings of Beethoven conducted by e.g. (alphabetically) Gardiner, Goodman, Hickox, Hogwood, Norrington and Pinnock. Maybe I am mis-remembering but I don't recall anything that I 've ever participated in which brutalised, savaged and grotesquely 'over-interpreted' the music to the extent that we heard tonight.

[Bryn]

Why oh why do 'period instruments' have to sound so UGLY?
For more than half of my 'professional musical life' ( about 37 of 73 years) I have played in period instrument concerts and recordings of Beethoven conducted by e.g. (alphabetically) Gardiner, Goodman, Hogwood, Norrington and Pinnock. Maybe I am mis-remembering but I don't recall anything that I 've ever participated in which brutalised, savaged,
and grotesquely 'over-interpreted' the music to the extent that we heard tonight.

I was not in the hall, so am relying purely on a comment made in the introduction to tonight's broadcast*, i.e.that the brass and wind appeared to be period, but the strings "normal". I will check back to make sure I did not mishear. If anyone here attended, perhaps they might comment.

* Hmm. Not Martin Handley, so perhaps it was sid durting the Proms Extra porgramm on BBC2.

[edashtav]

Why oh why do 'period instruments' have to sound so UGLY?
For more than half of my 'professional musical life' ( about 37 of 73 years) I have played in period instrument concerts and recordings of Beethoven conducted by e.g. (alphabetically) Gardiner, Goodman, Hickox, Hogwood, Norrington and Pinnock. Maybe I am mis-remembering but I don't recall anything that I 've ever participated in which brutalised, savaged and grotesquely 'over-interpreted' the music to the extent that we heard tonight.

Your question was, of course, rhetorical, but who were the sinners this evening? In my opinion , the BBC have a lot to answer for ... and the same was true last night. The placing of a small, hard-edged period band in the vast acoustic of the RAH is a cynical exercise in maximising revenue. Beethoven would have been heard is much smaller, shoe-box acoustics. Tonight’s orchestra would have sounded much better in the Cadogan Hall. Coming from afar, fresh to the RAH, I know from personal experience, how easy it is to overblow, simply because “ I feel so small in this”. The result is that nuances are blown away and coarseness rules, OK? [ Another rhetorical question!]

However, orchestra and conductor did adjust better in the fifth symphony and the finale of the Seventh was a great success, with some careful balancing that revealed often concealed figures as important structurally to the orchestral debate. Currentzis is no charlatan and his orchestra is very malleable in his hands. Together they are.. Things to Come.

[DracoM]

Having heard a number of period perfs, I'm truly at a loss to explain why this was made such an event by the BBC.
As such perfs go, not sure this was all that remarkable, was it?

[Stan Drews]

Having heard a number of peirod perfs, I'm truly at a loss to explain why this was made such an event by the BBC.
As such perfs go, not sure this was all that remarkable, was it?

No, it wasn't - yet another example of Beeb overkill. For readily available Symph 5, give me this one any time over what we've just heard https://www.concertgebouworkest.nl/e...-symphony-no-5 , even if the trombone placements are, err ... a tad eccentric.

[Dave2002]

That was my impression, too, of the 2nd - and I love many period Beethoven performances - Anima Eterna's, and Bruggen's, for example.

I didn't mind too much - though I wasn't made to feel that these were the best I've ever heard. The previous time I heard the 5th it was conducted by Bruggen at Tanglewood, and I did enjoy that more - though I was much closer to the action there - not half a mile away at a height of 500 feet!

[muzzer]

Re the subject of BBC hype, I'm considering not including these decriptions on the Proms OPs.

To be replaced in this case perhaps by “Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

[LMcD]

I'm afraid that the over-excited and sometimes frankly ridiculous hyping of some Proms concerts this year has resulted in my not bothering to listen and/or watch, since there's a distinct possibility that any expectations raised by them will not be met or will prove to have been hopelessly unrealistic or egregiously misleading. Counter-productive trails ultimately do nobody (including the artistes) any favours.
As it happens, I did hear the last 30 minutes or so of last night's Beethoven, and thought that it was very well played but in no way remarkable. Perhaps there was 'stuff' going on the platform which may have added to the experience of those present, who, to judge from the reaction at the end, clearly enjoyed the concert.

[Dave2002]

I wondered if the rest of the audience at the RAH had been reading up about Historic Performance practices - and decided to clap after every movement. I'm not sure if such clapping would have been historically correct. Do we know about how much applause there was in some of the performances in, say, Vienna? It didn't bother me too much either, but if not an attempt at verisimilitude, misplaced or not, it would suggest that many in the audience actually liked the performances. Certainly the applause was sufficient to generate an encore - though that might well have been part of the plan.

[Nachtigall]

I wondered if the rest of the audience at the RAH had been reading up about Historic Performance practices - and decided to clap after every movement. I'm not sure if such clapping would have been historically correct. Do we know about how much applause there was in some of the performances in, say, Vienna? It didn't bother me too much either, but if not an attempt at verisimilitude, misplaced or not, it would suggest that many in the audience actually liked the performances. Certainly the applause was sufficient to generate an encore - though that might well have been part of the plan.

Listening to the entire concert on internet radio last night, I thought the Beethoven performances by Currentzis's orchestra were thrilling. Complaints about coarseness and over-emphasis are not far off the mark. Nevertheless, I found their playing an invigorating experience and one doesn't, after all, have to go along with it if one doesn't care for it.

Incidentally, it matters not to me whether applause between movements is historically correct or not; I deplore the dim-witted compulsion to clap after each and every movement. It is one reason why I haven't bothered booking tickets for any Proms over the past couple of years.

[oddoneout]

I was not in the hall, so am relying purely on a comment made in the introduction to tonight's broadcast*, i.e.that the brass and wind appeared to be period, but the strings "normal". I will check back to make sure I did not mishear. If anyone here attended, perhaps they might comment.

* Hmm. Not Martin Handley, so perhaps it was sid durting the Proms Extra porgramm on BBC2.

This was what I heard also and I didn't see Proms Extra so it must have been at some point during the burble prior to or after - probably the first half.
I didn't find the sound ugly, even with the occasional distortion from my speakers(as previously mentioned)

[jonfan]

I'm afraid that the over-excited and sometimes frankly ridiculous hyping of some Proms concerts this year has resulted in my not bothering to listen and/or watch, since there's a distinct possibility that any expectations raised by them will not be met or will prove to have been hopelessly unrealistic or egregiously misleading. Counter-productive trails ultimately do nobody (including the artistes) any favours.
As it happens, I did hear the last 30 minutes or so of last night's Beethoven, and thought that it was very well played but in no way remarkable. Perhaps there was 'stuff' going on the platform which may have added to the experience of those present, who, to judge from the reaction at the end, clearly enjoyed the concert.

I check the programme first and then who is performing before deciding whether to listen or not, as I’m sure most people on these boards do. Publicity is important out of respect for the artists, and the licence fee payers who subsidise the Proms. Goodness we can’t have Radio 3 becoming popular can we?!
Tonight’s concert seemed to be the composer coming a distant second to the conductor, in contrast to last night’s with MB on the podium. (Glad to fully agree with Tony about tonight and that Ed should actually listen to the ‘hype’ about VW’s Pastoral to know it’s far away from any cow-pat.)