Prom 17: Parry, Vaughan Williams & Holst – 27.07.18

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:00
ON TV
Royal Albert Hall

Hubert Parry: Symphony No. 5 in B minor
Ralph Vaughan Williams: The Lark Ascending
Hubert Parry: Hear my words, ye people
Gustav Holst: Ode to Death
Ralph Vaughan Williams: A Pastoral Symphony

Tai Murray violin
Francesca Chiejina soprano
Ashley Riches bass-baritone
BBC National Chorus of Wales
BBC National Orchestra of Wales
Martyn Brabbins conductor

As well as being the composer of that Last Night favourite, Jerusalem, Hubert Parry (died 1918) was in many ways the father of contemporary English music, teaching both Vaughan Williams and Gustav Holst. Tonight's celebration of his legacy features Parry's own hope-filled Fifth Symphony alongside Vaughan Williams's elegiac The Lark Ascending and two memorials inspired by the First World War: Holst's Ode to Death and Vaughan Williams's Pastoral Symphony.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

At risk of sounding like a Radio 3 announcer, what an amazing concert! OK, it contains that hackneyed Radio 3 morning piece, but it's still a fine work, and the Pastoral Symphony is anything but hackneyed.

[hmvman]

Definitely one to look forward to. I haven't heard much mention of Parry this year with all the concentration on Bernstein and Debussy (not undeserved of course). I'm not at all familiar with Parry's symphonies so this concert will be a must-listen for me.

[Lat-Literal]

I agree this is an interesting looking concert. The fact that it is Parry's centenary and it is being marked is noteworthy. But - and this says much about my mind I guess - I am still looking for a map on the major British composers. The only way that I can describe this - it isn't wholly right - is in footballing terms. I have always wanted to have an idea of a spine that runs through those one hundred years and more in a way that convinces me and I don't quite get that yet. I suspect that it would have some reference - not all of it - to royal occasions. The way I see it : post war it is somewhat sporadic. I've got Britten close to Tippett and Walton not distant from them but a little way beyond. All veer beyond conventionality as it seems to me is befitting with the sixties . Earlier, I'm not sure. I'm sort of Parry into Stanford into Elgar and Vaughan Williams and possibly into Walton. I tend to think that Delius naturally resides outside. But I really can't place Holst in the overall context, then there is the fact that Stanford is Irish. So is there a spine in British classical music and if so what?

(I'm RVW/Delius, me, a combination of a questioning and, within measure, pro establishment and the impressionistic/unmappable - I'm happy with that but I still would like answers)

[Pabmusic]

...So is there a spine in British classical music and if so what?

I don't think there is such a 'spine'. In fact I think it's a mistake to look, because you might find one that's not really there. Humans are wonderfully good at pattern-seeking (that's why Jesus appears on so many pieces of toast).

Perhaps you can discern a few focal points - bushes if you like, rather than trees. The very obvious one that comes to mind is the RCM alumni bush, pupils of Stanford, Parry, and later Wood and Morris. There are connexions in style (rather more so than there are from Mackenzie's and Corder's pupils at the RAM) but that's it really. And that 'bush' did come from a true desire to establish a British tradition (no need to be pc, either. -Stanford was British all his life). But that desire was more among Groves, Sullivan & co. Parry'n'Stanford were young then. Parry didn't lead to Stanford, either - they were contemporaries, Stanford the first Professor of Composition, Parry of Musical History. The only early figure I haven't mentioned was Cowen, whose influence as a conductor was less obvious (he never taught).

So - Parry, Stanford, Mackenzie, and Cowen built on the work started by Sullivan and Groves. And quite independent of all this were Elgar and Delius, both mavericks, and not part of the mainstream..

That there are similarities among the pupils of the Brahmsian Stanford (or of the other really significant Irishman, Charles Wood) shouldn't be a surprise, even if some such as Holst and RVW developed un-Brahmsian styles (eventually). We might have expected those who passed through the RAM to have had a similar story, but no, even though Frederic Corder was there almost as long as Stanford was at the RCM. Just try to fit Bantock, German, Holbrooke, Bax, and Eric Coates on the same bush, let alone tree (I guess Wagner is a stronger influence than he was at the RCM).

Then there's the non-music-college ones (apart from Elgar) such as Butterworth, who came through the public schools and Oxbridge. Butterworth came under the influence of Thomas Dunhill at Eton and Dunhill's friends Tovey and Bridge (he did enrol at the RCM as a mature student, but completed just one full term). His style is an amalgam of Debussy and Grieg with a heavy dose of folk modalism.

What I'm really getting at, I suppose, is that it's almost impossible to detect a 'spine' - and certainly not one the individuals would have been aware of.

[Pabmusic]

Further to my previous post. Just consider the pupils of R. O. Morris (lifelong friend of Butterworth - they'd met aged 6 at dancing lessons, and they were almost side-by-side when George died).

Morris was Professor of Harmony and Counterpoint at the RCM for years and the pupils for whom he was the main tutor included Tippett, Lambert, Rubbra, Stevens, Finzi, Lutyens, Milford and Ferguson. Quite difficult to detect a 'spine' running theough those.

[Lat-Literal]

I don't think there is such a 'spine'. In fact I think it's a mistake to look, because you might find one that's not really there. Humans are wonderfully good at pattern-seeking (that's why Jesus appears on so many pieces of toast).

Perhaps you can discern a few focal points - bushes if you like, rather than trees. The very obvious one that comes to mind is the RCM alumni bush, pupils of Stanford, Parry, and later Wood and Morris. There are connexions in style (rather more so than there are from Mackenzie's and Corder's pupils at the RAM) but that's it really. And that 'bush' did come from a true desire to establish a British tradition (no need to be pc, either. -Stanford was British all his life). But that desire was more among Groves, Sullivan & co. Parry'n'Stanford were young then. Parry didn't lead to Stanford, either - they were contemporaries, Stanford the first Professor of Composition, Parry of Musical History. The only early figure I haven't mentioned was Cowen, whose influence as a conductor was less obvious (he never taught).

So - Parry, Stanford, Mackenzie, and Cowen built on the work started by Sullivan and Groves. And quite independent of all this were Elgar and Delius, both mavericks, and not part of the mainstream..

That there are similarities among the pupils of the Brahmsian Stanford (or of the other really significant Irishman, Charles Wood) shouldn't be a surprise, even if some such as Holst and RVW developed un-Brahmsian styles (eventually). We might have expected those who passed through the RAM to have had a similar story, but no, even though Frederic Corder was there almost as long as Stanford was at the RCM. Just try to fit Bantock, German, Holbrooke, Bax, and Eric Coates on the same bush, let alone tree (I guess Wagner is a stronger influence than he was at the RCM).

Then there's the non-music-college ones (apart from Elgar) such as Butterworth, who came through the public schools and Oxbridge. Butterworth came under the influence of Thomas Dunhill at Eton and Dunhill's friends Tovey and Bridge (he did enrol at the RCM as a mature student, but completed just one full term). His style is an amalgam of Debussy and Grieg with a heavy dose of folk modalism.

What I'm really getting at, I suppose, is that it's almost impossible to detect a 'spine' - and certainly not one the individuals would have been aware of.

Thank you Pab. That's very educational and informative and way beyond my prior knowledge. But I have obviously left out many people - you say "bushes" and I could say Alan and Geoffrey Bush, at least one of whom was more of a Cardew leaning. So I suppose it probably would hover around royal moments more than any other, should it exist which you doubt.

[Pabmusic]

Thank you Pab. That's very educational and informative and way beyond my prior knowledge. But I have obviously left out many people - you say "bushes" and I could say Alan and Geoffrey Bush, one of which was at least more of a Cardew leaning. So I suppose it probably would hover around royal moments more than any other, should it exist which you doubt.

Well, I've just finished writing one book and didn't want to start another! So there's plenty left out. My main point is that we're really good at finding patterns.

[Lat-Literal]

Well, I've just finished writing one book and didn't want to start another! So there's plenty left out. My main point is that we're really good at finding patterns.

Yes, that's true.

But I like patterns.

[richardfinegold]

Parry was the subject of a Gramophone feature that I just read yesterday and the 5th Symphony came in for particular praise

[LMcD]

At risk of sounding like a Radio 3 announcer, what an amazing concert! OK, it contains that hackneyed Radio 3 morning piece, but it's still a fine work, and the Pastoral Symphony is anything but hackneyed.

[Barbirollians]

I think last year was the first without the Lark for a while . What a shame we could not have had another short English violin piece instead like Milford's The Darkling Thrush or Julius Harrison's Bredon Hill instead.

[BBMmk2]

Oh this will be my favourite Prom of the season. Can’t wait! Neither can MrsBBM!

[LMcD]

Oh this will be my favourite Prom of the season. Can’t wait! Neither can MrsBBM!

AND it's on the telly!

[Lat-Literal]

I think last year was the first without the Lark for a while . What a shame we could not have had another short English violin piece instead like Milford's The Darkling Thrush or Julius Harrison's Bredon Hill instead.

I love Bredon Hill and also the Worcestershire Suite - WW2 and WWI as it were!

I don't know Milford's The Darkling Thrush but it sounds like it is based on Hardy?