Prom 12: Beethoven, Shostakovich & Rachmaninov - 23.07.18

[Goon525]

There was a bit of a debate about the nomenclature at the time of the launch of 'HD Sound'. What I considered to be the weasel-words explanation given was that while the use of the recognised term "High Definition Audio" could not be used, "High Definition Sound" was permissable, and made clear the improvement over the best that had been avilable previously from the BBC. Unfortunately the archived blog page re. the introduction is a bit of a mess, but for what it's worth it's here.

Thanks again, Bryn. As you say, the archived page is a mess, but there doesn’t seem to be any attempt to place so called HDs in the hierarchy of sound quality. But I guess I’m still hurting from the failure to offer FLAC again.

[richardfinegold]

Thanks again, Bryn. As you say, the archived page is a mess, but there doesn’t seem to be any attempt to place so called HDs in the hierarchy of sound quality. But I guess I’m still hurting from the failure to offer FLAC again.

I recall reading in one of the British Hi Fi Mags last year that broadcasting the Proms in FLAC was considered an experiment with no guarantee of becoming standard. Perhaps if BBC receives enough complaints they might reconsider?

[gradus]

Thanks for flagging up this performance. I wish every primary school could be taken to a live performance and allowed to sit as close to the orchestra as possible- give Rachmaninov the child and he'll give you the man.
Staggering performance by the orchestra.

[jayne lee wilson]

Oh, thanks, Bryn. Seems strange to describe a sound quality some way below CD (though not at all bad) as
High Definition, but there you go.

Yes, it has its own logo "HD" with a tiny "s" inside the D, which you see in the window, which appears at left when you hit the R3 homepage and click on listen live....
If you take the live feed off of the R3 schedule, you can check the bitrate by right-clicking on the window there....

One laments the non-reappearance of lossless, but at least concerts which sound like this offer some compensation! The 320 kbps AAC feed was introduced quite late in the 2010 season, so our FLAC friend "Concert Sound" could be restored anytime you like, given the managerial or directorial will...

[Paulie55]

Eclectic Composers

I don't think that even Mr Norman's best friends would be so generous as to describe him as "an avant-garde composer", ed. The clue here, I think, is in the ubiquitous word "eclectic": often meaning "having no individual voice of his own, nicks superficial bits and pieces from those who do".

Nothing at all wrong with being eclectic if the music shows skill and professionalism AND engages both players and audience alike. It is a sign of versatility that puts most contemporary composers to shame.......that is, an unwillingness to engage as long as their style isn't compromised. The best example of a successful and brilliant eclectic composer is John Corigliano.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The best example of a successful and brilliant eclectic composer is John Corigliano.

Oh, dear!

[bluestateprommer]

Finally caught up with the Symphonic Dances, to listen at home through speakers rather than at work through earbuds. Well worth the wait, with the BBC SO on cracking form and KC guiding the proceedings extremely well. I have seen scattered comments and reviews elsewhere that didn't like the spacious pacing (someone on Twitter said "more like Symphonic Dirges", words to that effect), but like what I wrote about TLA in the other thread, the Symphonic Dances are more than strong enough to survive this pacing. I take JLW's point about the audience holding off just a bit during the final tam-tam echo. Again, overall, KC did extremely well again with the BBC SO, so here's hoping for another Proms return next year.

But, for those who can get to London next February (again, barring our idiot Preznit destroying civilization by then - FWIW, KC is not a fan of him either), KC has this concert with the BBC SO at the Barbican next February 8, of Thomas Larcher's Alle Tage and LvB 7. Also just found a December set of concerts with the Scottish CO, December 13 in Edinburgh and Dec. 14 in Glasgow, of Felix Mendelssohn & JSB.

[Petrushka]

Finally caught up with the Symphonic Dances, to listen at home through speakers rather than at work through earbuds. Well worth the wait, with the BBC SO on cracking form and KC guiding the proceedings extremely well. I have seen scattered comments and reviews elsewhere that didn't like the spacious pacing (someone on Twitter said "more like Symphonic Dirges", words to that effect), but like what I wrote about TLA in the other thread, the Symphonic Dances are more than strong enough to survive this pacing. I take JLW's point about the audience holding off just a bit during the final tam-tam echo. Again, overall, KC did extremely well again with the BBC SO, so here's hoping for another Proms return next year.

But, for those who can get to London next February (again, barring our idiot Preznit destroying civilization by then - FWIW, KC is not a fan of him either), KC has this concert with the BBC SO at the Barbican next February 8, of Thomas Larcher's Alle Tage and LvB 7. Also just found a December set of concerts with the Scottish CO, December 13 in Edinburgh and Dec. 14 in Glasgow, of Felix Mendelssohn & JSB.

Just watched the BBC4 TV broadcast of this concert and it was most impressive. The BBCSO were very much on 'cracking form' playing with great commitment, especially evident in the Rachmaninov. Canellakis clearly has a fine rapport with them and she is a very good conductor to watch, conveying with a clear beat and without histrionic gestures exactly what she wants. Next BBCSO chief conductor anyone once Sakari leaves?

[jayne lee wilson]

She'd certainly get my vote - I still recall her Dvorak 8 wth the BBCSO last year with a glow of pleasure...

[edashtav]

She'd certainly get my vote - I still recall her Dvorak 8 wth the BBCSO last year with a glow of pleasure...

I must catch up with this Prom, the short video I’ve seen suggests that KC possesses authority, clarity of thinking, excellent technique and unflappability.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I must catch up with this Prom, the short video I’ve seen suggests that KC possesses authority, clarity of thinking, excellent technique and unflappability.

She does: I was at a concert in Leeds last year, which was superb.

[Petrushka]

I must catch up with this Prom, the short video I’ve seen suggests that KC possesses authority, clarity of thinking, excellent technique and unflappability.

I've been conductor-watching for some 45 years and seen (as well as met) many of the true giants of the podium, They had/have all of those attributes above but also that indefinable something we call, for want of a better word, charisma, the skill to make musicians play better than they thought they could. On the evidence of the BBC4 transmission last night, I believe that KC has this. There was nothing novice-like about the interpretations either which were fully thought through.

KC has a big, big future ahead if this Prom was any guide.

Das Wunder Karina?

[edashtav]

It’s folksong night at the Proms which is anathema to me so there's time to catch up.

I’ve just heard the first half of this Prom and my sentiments are closely aligned with those of bsp in his post#8.

Conductirs don’t choose Beethoven’s Coriolanus Overture if orchestras give them the run around. Karin’s authority over the BBC SO was evident immediately as was its trust in her beat. I was impressed.

For me, Alicia wasn’t on her best form: she was head-strong, overful of nervous excitement especially in the quicker movements. She was like a cat on the hot RAH roof. She missed Shostakovich’s stoicism, his ability to earth the electrifying terrors that Soviet Russia conjured for him. The piece is about “dealing with it” and not “dying from it”. By golly, Alicia was a holy terror and she should thank God that Kool Kat Karin was in charge to keep the BBC SO somewhere in range of her during a hectic allegretto first movement. Things calmed a little later. I must not moan too much, Alicia was the opposite of bland and it was good to hear her blistering attack on the work. I was thankful that I hadn’t bought her CD of DSCH’s two concerti...I wouldn’t choose to live on edge.

[edashtav]

Fabulous sound from the BBCSO in the Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances (fabulous sound balance too, easily the best I’ve heard this season), Karina Canellakis really getting the most out of the space and the orchestra, reminding me of the vivid and dynamic results Salonen has achieved here with the Philharmonia.
What a difference a conductor can make.The strings had terrific depth, weight and range of colour; Kanellakis gave that poignant 1st Symphony recollection in the 1st Movement of the Dances the full technicolor treatment.
The tempo di valse truly danced between those snarling, repressed fanfares; the finale marched, charged and finally gave us all the pent-up explosiveness we’d hoped for. All the many musical characters were vividly drawn, compellingly sung. I didn't miss a Russian orchestra much tonight.

Stunning presence, immediacy and dynamic punch on the HDs feed. Why can’t more Proms sound like this? Do they tend to sound better, the smaller the audience? Or only up to a point?

I liked the Andrew Norman Spiral. Whether or not it has a distinctive voice, I enjoyed how it flowed from spareness to density, desiccated clattering to swarms and swirls of multicolour, simplicity to almost-chaos, and that mid-air, throwaway ending on tuned percussion.
(And well done audience for waiting out the final resonant fade; so we’ll forgive your over-eagerness to acclaim the Rachmaninov spilling across the tam-tam’s resounding decay; hard to resist after witnessing, first-hand, such meticulous extravagance…)

I’ve taken Jayne’s positive review as closest to my reaction to the fine second half of this concert.

I’ll deal with Andrew Norman’s Spiral first as I was disappointed by it: it failed to deliver an outcome, the ending which Jayne found mid-air and throwaway, I found bathetic, and because it was too short. The composer had put a great deal of effort into, frankly, fussy scoring, but the piece was brief and enigmatic. I doubt that Spiral has legs. Pace Schott, it’s not avant-garde but you’re right, it is too eclectic for its own good. Please identify your own voice, Mr. Norman.

I’m fully in agreement with Jayne’s assessment of the wonderful performance of Rachmaninov’s final orchestral piece. KC allowed the music to breathe; she encouraged many tender solos to blossom but kept the accompaniment very rhythmic so avoiding sentimentality. It was marvellous that Cannelakis identified the core of the work as its second movement with its phantasmagoric set of ballroom waltzes. I’ve heard live performances which went downhill once the Babushka had laid down her saxophone in the first movement. KC found so much vital structural detail that can be overlooked in more hell for leather, virtuosic, interpretations. The work is Rachmaninov, fearing that his own death may be imminent and surrounded by a terrible World War, reflecting on old times. Despite his great achievements, SR is not writing a Heldenleben, for he has no complacency but feels deeply, what once was, but no longer obtains.

Overall: two very fine performances, an interesting interpretation of the cello concerto, and one disappointing premiere meant that this concert came in under par for the Proms course.

[Bergonzi]

Just watched the BBC4 TV broadcast of this concert and it was most impressive. The BBCSO were very much on 'cracking form' playing with great commitment, especially evident in the Rachmaninov. Canellakis clearly has a fine rapport with them and she is a very good conductor to watch, conveying with a clear beat and without histrionic gestures exactly what she wants. Next BBCSO chief conductor anyone once Sakari leaves?

Yes, this was an excellent concert and I well remember her Dvorak 8 last year. She would be great as the next BBC SO chief, but by then she may not be available. Mind you, the sooner Sakari goes the better, as far as I'm concerned. She would be a million times better.