Prom 4: Shostakovich’s ‘Leningrad’ Symphony - 16.07.18

[Richard Barrett]

And easy to get bogged down ....

This thread is going down the drain.

[teamsaint]

This thread is going down the drain.

I think people need to put a lid on it.

[Pulcinella]

Are the performers all flushed with success?

[Rcartes]

PROM 4. DSCH 7, BBCPO/MENA.

I’d imagine this was very exciting in the hall - hard for a Leningrad not to be - but, live via the HDs webcast, one or two problems for me here.

A rather dry balance, lacking space and air (large audience, large orchestra, warm night, acoustically absorptive?); some level-boosting apparent in the central episode of the finale, rather spoiling the tense preparation for the coda, which, whilst not lacking power exactly, didn’t open up enough and seemed subject to some pulling-back itself.
Musically I found this conclusion a little rushed and metrical, I wanted more blaze and abandonment, more letting-go. I wondered if the conductor was drawing a parallel with the undermined ambiguity of the ending of Symphony No.5…?

The performance was well-drilled - perhaps sometimes a little too neat and tidy?
The strings sounded augmented, especially the very powerful DB section - very dark, full and gutty. Side-drum in (i) was a shade too loud at first, later even evocative of the Nielsen 5th as the levels rose. Still, the 1st-movement climax, and its bleak aftermath, were powerful and contrasted enough… personally I wished for more intensity of both orchestral sound and dynamic contrast - a less “objective” presentation.
The scherzo lacked some character - that savage, sardonic, cartoonish colour was missing from winds and brass. Powerful, but too often merely militaristic. (Perhaps that peculiarly local USSR character, most aptly lurid wth Rozhdestvensky, is too much to ask from Western Orchestras).
But the adagio was both beautiful and heartfelt, again that large string section very powerful and eloquent. I wonder if the conductor sees this as the “first-person” heart of the work (DSCH the fireman speaks!)...
… Speeds nicely brisk in the outer movements, always a good thing to my ears. That less-inspired first section of the finale motored along very well, with its motivic references and relations crisp and clear.

So - pretty well-played, but I missed that colour and character that can - or in DSCH, need to - go beyond abstract symphonic expression into at least some degree of programmatic or narrative extremity; and whilst the sound, and dynamic range, was generally OK on the HDs webcast, I missed the anticipated sonic thrills to some extent too.

***
But I guess I was always going to miss -
1) Lossless sound (I don’t listen to much below CD quality these days). Dull decision not to bring Concert Sound back after last year. Great deal easier for ears to take a step up in quality rather than a step down - especially in large-scale pieces. Interested to hear how the Turangalila fares on Wednesday).
2) Russian Orchestras. If I listen to DSCH now, I tend to stick with Kondrashin or Rozh. (That Tatarstan/Sladkovsy release looks interesting….timings a little lengthy though…needs further investigation, hope it is available on Qobuz soon.)

Thank you for this detailed review, Jayne. I was there for the concert but didn't rate the performance at all; my particular bugbear was the first movement, where, rather than the snare drum being "a shade too loud at first," it was deafening and varied very little through the performance: no sense of the subtle opening gradually increasing in intensity to, as you said, Nielsen-like levels. Altogether, rather crude and very disappointing.

You didn't mention the Lindberg: I thought that was a total waste of time/space/sound: a completely shapeless piece, acting only as a forum for extreme sounds from the clarinet. Not something I'll ever want to hear again if I can help it.

[Richard Barrett]

a completely shapeless piece, acting only as a forum for extreme sounds from the clarinet

See my post earlier - I wonder whether we are talking about the same piece! For me the shape of it is much too obvious and predictable, the "extreme sounds" (a few multiphonics, amounting to probably less than a minute altogether) a rather peripheral addition to instrumental writing that otherwise contains nothing extreme at all. But the RAH does have a tendency to neutralise the shape of a lot of the music that's played there...

[Serial_Apologist]

Are the performers all flushed with success?

Pull the other one!

[Beef Oven!]

Pull the other one!

Oh dear - you're clean round the bend!

[Serial_Apologist]

Oh dear - you're clean round the bend!

Even you can't see that far - how do you know???

[cloughie]

Pull the other one!

You could pull the Handel (unless it’s been stolen by the vandal), but then it might just be wind and water music!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Bbm's post seems to have started a chain reaction - rather like the three works by Lutoslavvy.

[Beef Oven!]

Bbm's post seems to have started a chain reaction - rather like the three works by Lutoslavvy.

When it comes to toilet humour, we British will not be deturd.

[Once Was 4]

This isn't a sneer but I do find this piece quite tedious and directionless for most of its duration...

I may have said this before but I have played this symphony twice: the first time as an extra with one of the well known regional orchestras and a now-deceased and much-loved Latvian conductor. The work was extensively sent up by players - especially by the heavy brass The 1st horn tried to explain the significance of the piece and how, once you knew the context, it became very moving. He might as well have saved his breath and the only time that I ever saw this conductor lose his temper was due to some 'iffy' behaviour However everybody, professionals as they were, pulled their socks up for a magnificent performance,

The second time was years later in the orchestra where I was then employed; it was the first ever performance of the work in Leeds. A very similar situation ensued (not helped by the conductor giving a long lecture on the vastness of the Russian Steppes in the first rehearsal) Context is all.

[jayne lee wilson]

My thanks to Rcartes for his response from in-hall experience. But....

Posts #51-56 - sorry but there's no excuse for this dumbing down, yet again, a serious musical discussion forum to the twitter/facebook level at its worst. You're all just giving in to that tired old internet posting temptation, that lazy anonymous silliness, that tee-heeing one-liner schoolboy lavatory humour. You think this doesn't put off further comment here, especially from those who don't post often, or newbies?

Why d'you think there are fewer capable, knowledgeable people here now? If you can't resist start a thread on puns or something.

You see, I was prepared to take #45-48. I found it disrespectful, but I hoped we'd get other musical reports, and we did. I try not to be stuffy or humourless. Ignore my comments or critique them all you like, even make fun of them if you like, I'll give as good as I get (oh, don't worry) - but stick to the music for God's sake.

#METOO JLW

[Beef Oven!]

My thanks to Rcartes for his response from in-hall experience. But....

Posts #51-56 - sorry but there's no excuse for this dumbing down, yet again, a serious musical discussion forum to the twitter/facebook level at its worst. You're all just giving in to that tired old internet posting temptation, that lazy anonymous silliness, that tee-heeing one-liner schoolboy lavatory humour. You think this doesn't put off further comment here, especially from those who don't post often, or newbies?

Why d'you think there are fewer capable, knowledgeable people here now? If you can't resist start a thread on puns or something.

You see, I was prepared to take #45-48. I found it disrespectful, but I hoped we'd get other musical reports, and we did. I try not to be stuffy or humourless. Ignore my comments or critique them all you like, even make fun of them if you like, I'll give as good as I get (oh, don't worry) - but stick to the music for God's sake.

#METOO JLW

And your rude and childish post #15 on the Composers quoting other composers thread? Ok, Stanfordian thought it was funny and joined in, but I didn't. A bit of consistency please.

[Flay]

And your rude and childish post #15 on the Composers quoting other composers thread?

I don’t think you’re being fair, Beefy (or should I say fare?) The quote is Brahms’ own

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_Y75UG3XesAC&pg=PA354&lpg=PA354&dq=%22+Das+bemerkt+ja+schon+jeder+Esel%22&source=bl&ots=k7mDUQ4XPL&sig=82AgQcH6z2LnLCQd7MZRnxt4ljI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwilnaT4iKncAhVCLcAKHRn1AJQQ6AEwAXoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22%20Das%20bemerkt%20ja%20schon%20jeder%20Esel%22&f=false

so it was clever of JLW to use it. I have sinned many a time on these boards with silly quips, but I think Jane has a point on this occasion.