Prom 3: BBC Young Musician 40th Anniversary - 15.07.18

[Serial_Apologist]

Surely one of the key ideas in Drumming is that it is "music as a gradual process" so the idea of a "highlight" completely misses the point of the piece ?

Got it!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It would have been a very long concert if every winner from the last 40 years had a solo spot.

Which is another reason the whole idea was a poor one. Far fairer, and a better indication of the success of the Competition to have gone with the idea (as suggested earlier on here) of featuring Musicians who have made successful careers from the past forty years throughout the Proms Season, both as soloists in orchestral concerts, and working together in the Chamber recitals. (And a pity the orchestra of the Royal Opera House isn't featured in this year's season, as this prevented a Proms appearance by the very first winner. Nice of that year's runner-up to step in for him.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Are you suggesting the performers should suffer for the performance to be of acceptable quality? I don’t think anyone here set out to have fun but to perform well. As a result of it being successful they had fun, which came over to me anyway.

Yes - and it wouldn't at all surprise me to hear that the Beeb Proms planners would be as baffled and dismissive of the majority of negative comments voiced here as you are, jf. It's just a completely different view of what Music - and, for that matter "fun" - is all about.

[jonfan]

Which is another reason the whole idea was a poor one. Far fairer, and a better indication of the success of the Competition to have gone with the idea (as suggested earlier on here) of featuring Musicians who have made successful careers from the past forty years throughout the Proms Season, both as soloists in orchestral concerts, and working together in the Chamber recitals. (And a pity the orchestra of the Royal Opera House isn't featured in this year's season, as this prevented a Proms appearance by the very first winner. Nice of that year's runner-up to step in for him.)

We are not going to agree on this any time soon but I enjoyed this mixture of a programme as much as the performers did. Many winners and runners up from the last 40 years are performing in this season’s Proms as they have in previous seasons. It would have been risky to expose this year’s winner to a major concert in this season as, rightly so, exposure as a fully fledged professional needs careful nurturing from one so young.

[french frank]

Are you suggesting the performers should suffer for the performance to be of acceptable quality?

No. That's nothing to do with what I said. I was suggesting that the enjoyment of the audience - not all of whom were as satisfied with the programming (not the performances, note) as you - was more important than the fun, or otherwise, had by the performers.

Which is another reason the whole idea was a poor one. Far fairer, and a better indication of the success of the Competition to have gone with the idea (as suggested earlier on here) of featuring Musicians who have made successful careers from the past forty years throughout the Proms Season, both as soloists in orchestral concerts, and working together in the Chamber recitals.

Yes.

[jonfan]

Yes - and it wouldn't at all surprise me to hear that the Beeb Proms planners would be as baffled and dismissive of the majority of negative comments voiced here as you are, jf. It's just a completely different view of what Music - and, for that matter "fun" - is all about.

I think you are confusing being moved and uplifted by music and having fun by music. This concert was fun and intended to be nothing more so no point in wishing for something deeper; an Opera North Ring Cycle, for example, moving and uplifting, not many jokes there. Both rewarding musical experiences for different times and moods.

[Barbirollians]

I think you are confusing being moved and uplifted by music and having fun by music. This concert was fun and intended to be nothing more so no point in wishing for something deeper; an Opera North Ring Cycle, for example, moving and uplifting, not many jokes there. Both rewarding musical experiences for different times and moods.

I didn't find much fun in cutting C of the A, lots of fine players bring shoehorned into playing second rate commissions or that dire cello piece and hours of chat .

To show real respect for what they have achieved would have been as I said earlier to have given them a concerto or chamber spot over the season. Sheku in his beloved Shostakovich 1 , Clein in the Elgar, Van Der Heijden in the Walton , Guy Johnston in Haydn , Nicholas Daniel in the Strauss Concerto , Michael Collins in the Mozart quintet , Freddy Kempf in the Prokofiev 2 etc etc

[MrGongGong]

I didn't find much fun in cutting C of the A, lots of fine players bring shoehorned into playing second rate commissions or that dire cello piece and hours of chat .

To show real respect for what they have achieved would have been as I said earlier to have given them a concerto or chamber spot over the season. Sheku in his beloved Shostakovich 1 , Clein in the Elgar, Van Der Heijden in the Walton , Guy Johnston in Haydn , Nicholas Daniel in the Strauss Concerto , Michael Collins in the Mozart quintet , Freddy Kempf in the Prokofiev 2 etc etc

In "another place" (where some don't venture ) some of the people you mention were commenting on how much they enjoyed the whole thing.
But don't let that get in the way of making huge assumptions about what musicians should and should not play.

[jonfan]

In "another place" (where some don't venture ) some of the people you mention were commenting on how much they enjoyed the whole thing.
But don't let that get in the way of making huge assumptions about what musicians should and should not play.

[french frank]

In "another place" (where some don't venture ) some of the people you mention were commenting on how much they enjoyed the whole thing.
But don't let that get in the way of making huge assumptions about what musicians should and should not play.

Again, where do audiences figure in this? this just repeats what jonfan said (no wonder he gave it the thumbs up ) - that the performers seem to be having a lot of fun. Who knows? Perhaps many of those who chose that particular concert to attend also enjoyed it.

It doesn't alter the basic fact: that the Proms, like Radio 3, are focusing much more on 'soft' programming thse days, welcoming in the timid newcomers &c. &c. - which leaves those who demand to be stretched feeling sidelined. Do they flag up the 'starter Proms' these days?

[DracoM]

Oh dear, FF...I think you may have given the Beeb an idea that might run and run............
.....but, hang on, they already do this with Breakfast, Essential Classics, Afternoon Concert, Mixtape, and.........................
Ian Skelley would be right up for that.

[LMcD]

I'm sure that, if they do take up this idea, it will be on the grounds that it is 'in the public interest' , this apparently being their guiding principle.

[MrGongGong]

Again, where do audiences figure in this? this just repeats what jonfan said (no wonder he gave it the thumbs up ) - that the performers seem to be having a lot of fun. Who knows? Perhaps many of those who chose that particular concert to attend also enjoyed it.

It doesn't alter the basic fact: that the Proms, like Radio 3, are focusing much more on 'soft' programming thse days, welcoming in the timid newcomers &c. &c. - which leaves those who demand to be stretched feeling sidelined. Do they flag up the 'starter Proms' these days?

(quickly , so maybe not as considered as others!)

I'm never going to get the Proms that I would "like". I'm never going to get all night La Monte Young etc etc

I go elsewhere for that
and do think this year is a bit dull for my tastes

BUT

I would imagine that (going on what my friends who played in this gig said) that many people DID and DO enjoy this stuff)
at least it's not an ALW Prom

I'm frequently asked about "starter" music for folks unfamiliar with stuff
I usually suggest things like Black Angels or Metastaseis ... i'm not convinced by the whole "soft" introduction nonsense

[Bryn]

(quickly , so maybe not as considered as others!)

I'm never going to get the Proms that I would "like". I'm never going to get all night La Monte Young etc etc

I go elsewhere for that
and do think this year is a bit dull for my tastes

BUT

I would imagine that (going on what my friends who played in this gig said) that many people DID and DO enjoy this stuff)
at least it's not an ALW Prom

I'm frequently asked about "starter" music for folks unfamiliar with stuff
I usually suggest things like Black Angels or Metastaseis ... i'm not convinced by the whole "soft" introduction nonsense

Entirely concur re.your final point, but fear you tempt fate with the penultimate.

[antongould]

Oh dear, FF...I think you may have given the Beeb an idea that might run and run............
.....but, hang on, they already do this with Breakfast, Essential Classics, Afternoon Concert, Mixtape, and.........................
Ian Skelley would be right up for that.

I think Ian Skelly would be too ......