Bernstein

[underthecountertenor]

God.
Lecture?
Lecture?

I try to spread a little musical happiness, and get chased away with a third-programme sniff and a frown...Sorry I spoke....

No wonder we ended up with tweets and phone-ins.

I’m not sorry you spoke, Jayne Lee, but I’m sorry you’ve been lectured at, by someone who then accused you of lecturing.

[DracoM]

Look, this is TOTALLY crazy:

I started this thread [ and boy, do I wish I hadn't!] to draw attention to the BBC and how they were playing this: non-stop trails, programmes, references in other progs on R3, BBC TV, R4 etc etc. I.E the way the BBC does things.

Seemingly every time they want to celebrate a composer / event etc, they go so far OTT as to weary and anger by relentless repetition and in the process the central core -eg the compoer / event - gets blighted and somehow can be made into a yawn rather than a charismatic star.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Has any one else picked up in the contradictory portraits of Bernstein as conductor that have emerged this week ? In the excellent Composer Of the Week Donald Mcleod described his behaviour during his famous recording of West Side Story as almost "bullying" . A perception endorsed by Marin Alsop who was present during the recording - her father was a violinist on it . Yet today we hear from an exec from the New York Phil that he was the first ever conductor to bombard the orchestral musicians with love -and this after the rigours of working with Mahler and Toscaninni. After this week' s near total immersion I wish he had composed more and conducted less.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think the problem here is the difference between
“ Look, its Bernsteins’s centenary”...and “ Look, its US doing Bernstein’s Centenary”.

The can be very few R3 listeners who are unaware of the significance, so definitely a “ less is more” moment.

R3 presentation can indeed be very irksome ,and the trails for all things LB have been OTT, but the way R3 does these things is the modern BBC way, and I dont expect it to change for the better any time soon.

Best to let it go, and make the best of the alternatives available, as well as the better aspects of coverage of the music, if at all possible.

- I think that this both sums up the purpose of the Thread and comments neatly on what has been described elsethread as the "Trailer Trash" mentality that pervades BBC Radio broadcasts - they'll be sticking trailers between symphony movements during concert broadcasts at this rate.

DracoM's appreciation of Bernstein himself was clear from the second "paragraph" of the OP - and clarified further in #8 - but perhaps the Thread title might be amended to (to "Bernstein Trailer" or "Bernstein and Other Trailers"?) to make this more immediately clear, particularly to those Forumistas who (understandably) wish to comment on the Proms performances of Bernstein's Music, or the CotW programmes?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It is actuary terribly boring having to complain about these trailers but if no one complains then what? If you don't mind the trailers, that's one thing but comparing the complaints with someone’s enthusiasm about the subject of the trailer is again, missing the point and irrelevant (I am sorry to be rude but I am not in the best mood having to hear the **** trailer every time I go to iPlayer).

[LMcD]

Well, I've just watched the repeat of the 1990 documentary and found it very interesting and well put together. The 'West Side Story' recording sequence was pretty wince-inducing, I must say. As for the (in)famously slow 'Nimrod', I thought Elgar came out slightly ahead .
The programe was a real trip down TV Memory lane, with appearances by Huw Wheldon, Robin Ray, Donald MacCormick and others.
There was no mention of his Mahler 2 from Ely.
Was that an all-male LSO I saw?

As regards the OTT trailers - the BBC goes OTT as a matter of course these days...the search of Cliff Richard's house, the death of showbiz celebrities, any sports event to which they have secured the rights, 'Strictly', the latest Brexit spat, Dec without Ant - you name it, they'll seize upon it like a ravenous pack of wolves.

[Ein Heldenleben]

- I think that this both sums up the purpose of the Thread and comments neatly on what has been described elsethread as the "Trailer Trash" mentality that pervades BBC Radio broadcasts - they'll be sticking trailers between symphony movements during concert broadcasts at this rate.

DracoM's appreciation of Bernstein himself was clear from the second "paragraph" of the OP - and clarified further in #8 - but perhaps the Thread title might be amended to (to "Bernstein Trailer" or "Bernstein and Other Trailers"?) to make this more immediately clear, particularly to those Forumistas who (understandably) wish to comment on the Proms performances of Bernstein's Music, or the CotW programmes?

It seems a shame that Bernstein hasn't been accorded the "honour " (?) of a seperate thread on the COTW sub-section. He will have to find a different route to immortality. Seriously though the three I heard on him were excellent and benefitted from Marin Alsop's intelligent and sometimes critical contributions .
As for the trailers the sad fact is that because of the fragmented of tv viewing , radio listening and web surfing you have to trail many , many times ( 80 - 100 tv trails a week for a popular upcoming BBC show would be standard ) to have any impact. The fact that forumistas have heard a lot means that they are heavy listeners - and good for them .

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It is, perhaps, surprising given the enthusiasm for Bernstein's Music expressed on this Thread, that nobody has started a CotW Thread on last week's programmes. If anyone more keen on it than I am wishes to start such a Thread, I shall be happy to move pertinent posts from this Thread to it.

[french frank]

If anyone more keen on it than I am wishes to start such a Thread …

There is a thread on the Bernstein Prom, there could have been a thread on the CotW programmes, and this thread was clearly (I would say) flagged up as a criticism of Radio 3's Trailerfest. To use the infamous phrase that sets people's teeth on edge, what's not to like?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Just heard a trail to catch up with On The Town on the iplayer - truly there is no end t it......

[Ein Heldenleben]

It is, perhaps, surprising given the enthusiasm for Bernstein's Music expressed on this Thread, that nobody has started a CotW Thread on last week's programmes. If anyone more keen on it than I am wishes to start such a Thread, I shall be happy to move pertinent posts from this Thread to it.

Should you do so please could you make sure that such a move is adequately trailed ....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Should you do so please could you make sure that such a move is adequately trailed ....

(Took me a moment there! )

[gradus]

I don't want to give the wrong impression. Just because I agree that there has been saturation coverage, I am not of the view that this is inappropriate. Bernstein as a man will bring forth the usual pluses and minuses. Bernstein as a figure is immense. He was a charismatic giant who was one of the greatest teachers of young people among so many other things. Few were ever more charismatic than Lenny. I like him a lot. I happen to think that Beecham was also a giant and that any issues there should not get in the way. He was as he was.

Fairfield Hall, Croydon - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Wy4r2m5yo

(The Council has one route out from total disdain imho - improve the acoustics in the new joint and all may be forgiven; bugger it up and confirm every prejudice : "over to yoo-hoo")

What a terrific performance preserved there. I live in hopes that someone somewhere still has a recording of Bernstein's LSO performance at the Edinburgh Festival in the eighties, I managed to mislay mine but the performance is incandescent.

[vinteuil]

Few were ever more charismatic than Lenny. I like him a lot.

... do you now? I don't.

I happen to think that Beecham was also a giant.

... do you now? I don't.


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[jayne lee wilson]

Anyway, on a thread called "Bernstein" I'm very moved to note that the BBC4 Films were - wonderful!

The Humphrey Burton documentary was packed with terrific rehearsal and interview clips, most of which I'd never seen before - quite rivetting.
The West Side Story making-of film was again, fascinating and very moving, with archive clips, photos, and stunning present-day rehearsal sequences from young performers (I had a few tears here...o vanished days of youth, o scattered love...as Mahler put it)**.
And the significance of the tritone in West Side Story - I never knew that, quite revelatory, as were Jamie Bernstein's comments about "Somewhere", how those double-basses keep undermining the optimistic fantasy, yet never quite killing it....

Don't miss them!

It came at just the right time for me, as I fall in love with the Bernstein concert works...

(**Does anyone know who was singing Tony in these sequences? He gave "Maria" the performance of its life...