Proms 2018

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  • Bryn
    Banned
    • Mar 2007
    • 24688

    Originally posted by french frank View Post
    I think that is, superficially, confusing the use of 'tradition' and 'convention' (and one could reasonably argue that both applauding and not applauding have been 'traditions' in their time - indeed you did so yourself on this thread: what else could one have called them?) with the reason for such 'traditions' (obviously the 'tradition' of not applauding didn't begin "because it was a tradition").

    I can only offer a rough analogy, an ill-favoured thing but mine own: a Shakespeare play which has well-known speeches or 'set-pieces'. A telling pause at the end of the speech is not an invitation to applaud however well-delivered the speech; rather it offers a moment of reflection over what has just passed and suspense over what will come next. I see that as analogous to the function of the silence between movements.


    Originally posted by french frank View Post
    I concur and withdraw

    Comment

    • vinteuil
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 13014

      Originally posted by Bryn View Post
      ... or, as The Man said - "I can't go on. I'll go on."

      .

      Comment

      • Eine Alpensinfonie
        Host
        • Nov 2010
        • 20576

        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
        There could be some disagreement here. The upper stave lasts for longer than the lower one.

        Comment

        • Serial_Apologist
          Full Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 37908

          Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
          There could be some disagreement here. The upper stave lasts for longer than the lower one.


          Speaking more generally of audience intrusions, and whether or not these are necessarily warranted or unwarranted, each month The Clocktower in Croydon hosts a free lunchtime jazz event, which is attended mostly by a full house of pensioners considerably older than myself (72), who, without exception, all listen with wrapt attention, only appauding at ends of solos or completion of numbers, as is either customary or tradition. The only sounds, apart from the music and any announcements, are those quietly drifting in from the adjacent cafeteria. At one of these gatherings, in the middle of a number, one particular elderly gentleman, possibly a Parkinson's Disease sufferer, who was there with his carer, stood up very unsteadily, holding a camera, and, taking about three minutes to do so, shuffled his way forward to position himself foresquarely about a foot from the front-line soloist, who was in full flow. He then proceeded to raise the camera to within a few inches of the musician's face, and for a good five minutes tried to steady his own violent up and down arm movements in order to take a shot. When this was accomplished, he was, again very slowly, helped back to his seat. And then, mid-way through the following number, he did exactly the same thing. All this time, no one in the audience reacted in any way as if there was anything untoward, let alone of amusement; and the musicians all played on, totally unperturbed.

          Comment

          • MrGongGong
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 18357

            Originally posted by Richard Barrett View Post

            In answer to the question earlier about expressing disapproval after a performance: I don't think I've ever done that to a performer.
            Not like the "good old days" then, when everyone was so much more polite?


            I remember doing the sound for a performance of Morton Subotnick's The Wild Beasts at Dartington in the 1980's where several members of the audience stormed out noisily complaining how it "wasn't music"

            Comment

            • DracoM
              Host
              • Mar 2007
              • 13000

              Whatever the pros and cons raised by forumistas, all I can add is that it is making the Proms next to unlistenable for me.

              Many, indeed most of the major works being performed are often intended to be heard as having links through the 'movements'. Mid-way applause breaks concentration and reinforces the whole 'tracks' format crap that has so come to dominate Radio 3. Sounds like children clapping who know nothing. Tedious and demeaning.

              Does it happen in any other music festival etc? Certainly in any with such international profile?

              I think I'll suggest on The Choir that we learn to clap every musical item in Choral Evensong, shall I?

              Comment

              • Lat-Literal
                Guest
                • Aug 2015
                • 6983

                Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post


                Speaking more generally of audience intrusions, and whether or not these are necessarily warranted or unwarranted, each month The Clocktower in Croydon hosts a free lunchtime jazz event, which is attended mostly by a full house of pensioners considerably older than myself (72), who, without exception, all listen with wrapt attention, only appauding at ends of solos or completion of numbers, as is either customary or tradition. The only sounds, apart from the music and any announcements, are those quietly drifting in from the adjacent cafeteria. At one of these gatherings, in the middle of a number, one particular elderly gentleman, possibly a Parkinson's Disease sufferer, who was there with his carer, stood up very unsteadily, holding a camera, and, taking about three minutes to do so, shuffled his way forward to position himself foresquarely about a foot from the front-line soloist, who was in full flow. He then proceeded to raise the camera to within a few inches of the musician's face, and for a good five minutes tried to steady his own violent up and down arm movements in order to take a shot. When this was accomplished, he was, again very slowly, helped back to his seat. And then, mid-way through the following number, he did exactly the same thing. All this time, no one in the audience reacted in any way as if there was anything untoward, let alone of amusement; and the musicians all played on, totally unperturbed.

                That's very good - I enjoyed it.

                Thank you.

                Comment

                • Beef Oven!
                  Ex-member
                  • Sep 2013
                  • 18147

                  Originally posted by DracoM View Post
                  Whatever the pros and cons raised by forumistas, all I can add is that it is making the Proms next to unlistenable for me.

                  Many, indeed most of the major works being performed are often intended to be heard as having links through the 'movements'. Mid-way applause breaks concentration and reinforces the whole 'tracks' format crap that has so come to dominate Radio 3. Sounds like children clapping who know nothing. Tedious and demeaning.

                  Does it happen in any other music festival etc? Certainly in any with such international profile?

                  I think I'll suggest on The Choir that we learn to clap every musical item in Choral Evensong, shall I?
                  It happens in snooker, between shots when even more concentration is required than playing or listening to clessical music.

                  Comment

                  • cloughie
                    Full Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 22223

                    Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                    It happens in snooker, between shots when even more concentration is required than playing or listening to clessical music.
                    ...and they play as many balls as you talk!

                    Comment

                    • Beef Oven!
                      Ex-member
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 18147

                      Originally posted by cloughie View Post
                      ...and they play as many balls as you talk!
                      ....... and you're well known for talking quite a lot of bollocks!

                      Comment

                      • Bryn
                        Banned
                        • Mar 2007
                        • 24688

                        Originally posted by DracoM View Post
                        Whatever the pros and cons raised by forumistas, all I can add is that it is making the Proms next to unlistenable for me.

                        Many, indeed most of the major works being performed are often intended to be heard as having links through the 'movements'. Mid-way applause breaks concentration and reinforces the whole 'tracks' format crap that has so come to dominate Radio 3. Sounds like children clapping who know nothing. Tedious and demeaning.

                        Does it happen in any other music festival etc? Certainly in any with such international profile? . . .
                        Not only at other festivals but at concerts throughout the UK, Europe and tbe world. Not every concert, and not at every Prom, but at some. As to links, that is why I linked to a (poorly written) closing bar with fermata over a rest. Not too much of a link is such cases, unless also marked attacca. It's worth remembering that some composers even called for a significant break between some movements. In the case of Mahler's 2nd Symphony, a pause of 5 minutes after the first movement. Similarly there is a call for a long puase between parts 1 and 2 of the 3rd Symphony. More recently, Messiaen called for a pause of 1 minute between each movement of Et Expecto . . . .
                        Last edited by Bryn; 24-07-18, 20:10. Reason: Typos

                        Comment

                        • Serial_Apologist
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 37908

                          Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                          It happens in snooker, between shots when even more concentration is required than playing or listening to clessical music.
                          Yeah but in snooker, the winner pov ordains that for the loser there is no future, whereas in between the movements of a symphony (say), both audience and performers know there to be a future, unless they or orchestra are suddenly and unexpectedly wiped out - at least for the duration of the performance. See, with music, there are no winners or losers.

                          Comment

                          • MrGongGong
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 18357

                            Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                            See, with music, there are no winners or losers.

                            No losers ?
                            Surely you have heard Elgar's Dre............

                            Comment

                            • Beef Oven!
                              Ex-member
                              • Sep 2013
                              • 18147

                              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                              ............ with music, there are no winners or losers.
                              ALW doesn't see it that way

                              Comment

                              • Bryn
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2007
                                • 24688

                                Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
                                No losers ?
                                Surely you have heard Elgar's Dre............
                                Rather not hear! Rather not hear!

                                Comment

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