Proms 2018

[french frank]

Yes, that old chestnut again, re-igniting a fascinating debate on the messageboards of The Guardian this morning, following what I would call a somewhat provocative article by Chi-Chi Nwanoku:

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...lassical-music

Another performer's view: interesting to see which ones agree and which disagree. I'm sure this is temperament/personality driven. There's no point in discussing it with people who are fundamentally different types of human being. It's just the unfortunate thing that those who like quiet are always outdone by those who prefer noise.

[teamsaint]

Person disapproves of other peoples disapproval, and wants to replace one set of rules with another.

I’d have applauded at the end of the fifth movement of Turangalila the other night, if others had, the moment seemed right.
But nobody did, so that was fine.

The business of applause between movements has almost no connection to or effect on the size of audiences, of that I am certain.

A much widef analysis of availability of music and social and economic factors is required. This sort of article, “ snootiness “ etc, ( the arena audience certainly isnt anything like that” is divisive .Sadly.

[kernelbogey]

I might feel like applauding after an exciting or beautiful middle movement - but I can also think about other concert-goers around me who may have different views.

[Serial_Apologist]

Person disapproves of other peoples disapproval, and wants to replace one set of rules with another.

I’d have applauded at the end of the fifth movement of Turangalila the other night, if others had, the moment seemed right.
But nobody did, so that was fine.

I would probably have enjoined a spontaneous, rapturous, convivial expression of enthusiasm of that sort too, especially as it would have seemed a non-partisan thing to do at that moment, unlike in some sports crowd where ones own side wins at the expense of the other. Given the comparative rarity of such celebratory occasions when something good does not automaticaly have to be at someone else's expense, it would be a tragedy were such expressions to be declared non-protocol or banned. How to distinguish between these and the half-heated applause after a peaceful ending that disturbs the ethos and seems to wonder if it's right or that the main applause deserves saving up for the "proper" ending would be hard to legislate for; and that's the problem, I think.

[gurnemanz]

Lebrecht has reported Barenboim's asking an audience in Buenos Aires not to applaud movements.

[Beef Oven!]

I think that anyone who attends a concert along with hundreds of other people and expects total personal immersion and concentration in the performance with no impact from others, is suffering from an acute bout of chronic narcissism. And as for those listening hundreds of miles away on their wireless or television who expect the same, well words fail me .......

[Pulcinella]

I think that anyone who attends a concert along with hundreds of other people and expects total personal immersion and concentration in the performance with no impact from others, is suffering from an acute bout of chronic narcissism. And as for those listening hundreds of miles away on their wireless or television who expect the same, well words fail me .......

Surely it is more narcissistic of those attending the concert to applaud at will without any concern about how others (either in the audience or hundreds of miles away as you charmingly refer to them) might feel?

[Barbirollians]

I don’t like it generally and have the same view of it as kernelbogey. I tend to be much more annoyed by it after slow movements when clapping can really break the spell.

[MrGongGong]

Bingo

[Beef Oven!]

Lebrecht has reported Barenboim's asking an audience in Buenos Aires not to applaud movements.

First the audience is late, then they applaud before the note has died away. Then he adds the bit about not applauding between movements (I can think of a few toilet jokes here, but we've already been told off this week about that!).

I'm with Danny on the first two, and if the conductor/spokesperson makes a request like the third one, before the gig begins, then the request should be respected.

[doversoul1]

Chi-chi Nwanoku seems to presuppose that clapping between movements is nothing but ‘rapturous and spontaneous applause’. I imagine few people would object to it if this were the case but the clapping we often hear between movements at the proms seems to be more often come from those who think the work has finished and they ought to applaud ‘regardless of whether they enjoyed it or not’. Would Ms Nwanoku still welcome it so whole heartedly?

After all, people would not clap if they did not like what they saw and heard.

She seems to be living in a happy world where everyone is honest and genuine. If only.

[Beef Oven!]

The author of the article seems to presuppose that the clapping between movements is ‘rapturous and spontaneous applause’. Few people would object to it if this were the case but the clapping we often hear between movements at the proms seems to be more often come from those who think the work has finished and they ought to applause ‘regardless of whether they enjoyed it or not’.

After all, people would not clap if they did not like what they saw and heard.

The author seems to be living in a happy world where everyone is honest and genuine. If only.

It hadn't occurred to me that people clap because they mistakenly think the work has finished. Are we sure about this?

[MrGongGong]

She seems to be living in a happy world where everyone is honest and genuine. If only.

Much better to assume that everyone is nasty and trying to spoil things, don't you think ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Bingo

I was laying bets on when this particular post was coming.

MrGG, I'm disappointed. It was first brought up several days ago in another Proms thread.

[Pulcinella]

It hadn't occurred to me that people clap because they mistakenly think the work has finished. Are we sure about this?

Given the current propensity of R3 and CFM, amongst others, to play single-movement extracts from longer pieces, this seems to me to be a reasonable assumption, if only because some of those people may well not appreciate that the work as a whole consists of more than they have just heard.