Proms 2018

[underthecountertenor]

And I see it is the same user-unfriendly load of rubbish that it was last year (and the year before that).

Dear BBC

When you write

Ravel’s sensuous mythological ballet Daphnis and Chloe meets the courtly beauty of Fauré’s Pavane in this concert by the BBC Symphony Orchestra. Rising Swiss pianist Francesco Piemontesi is the soloist in Mozart’s lyrical Piano Concerto No. 27.

wastes everyones time wading through your unnecessary flowery prose.

Ravel Daphnis and Chloe
Faure Pavane
Mozart Piano Concerto No 27

is all that we need, thank you very much.

I simply do not have the time or inclination to read page after page of waffle.

I'm not sure I see what the great problem is. It's pretty easy to speed read the 'flowery prose' to decide whether the concert is of interest. For example, in the above, I can see at a glance that we've got Daphnis and Chloe, Faure's Pavane and Mozart PC 27, and that Piemontesi is the soloist with the BBC SO. And I am by inclination a 'read every word' kinda guy, so if I can do it, I'm sure you can.

Also there is always (as there was before 'website' and 'subsite' were words) the physical book (prospectus, guide, call it what you will). You pays your money....

[Beef Oven!]

As usual, I looked through the list and felt there was little for me. However, after a second pass I see I have noted 12 concerts which are of interest!/QUOTE]

I had another look and discovered about 10 concerts I'm interested in!!!

[MrGongGong]

"The Scratch Orchestra"
turns out to be this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e64fbp

So not really THE scratch orchestra at all
but i'm sure it will be fun

[french frank]

Who knows? There may be a one-page concert listing, as in previous years; though the compiler can't be expected to produce it before the details are published.

If you click on the concert titles instead of Show more information you just get the details - no 'waffle'. One click per concert doesn't seem a lot these days.

[Cockney Sparrow]

I'm not sure I see what the great problem is. It's pretty easy to speed read the 'flowery prose' to decide whether the concert is of interest. For example, in the above, I can see at a glance that we've got Daphnis and Chloe, Faure's Pavane and Mozart PC 27, and that Piemontesi is the soloist with the BBC SO. And I am by inclination a 'read every word' kinda guy, so if I can do it, I'm sure you can. .

They need to market the Proms, so I suppose they have to have their way. Let look on the bright side - at least they haven't taken the purple prose as far as to include taste (culinary) and olfactory (perfume) allusions in the short descriptive paragraph.

One plus point is that the more detailed info - all artists, timings etc, is in a drop down menu on the same page. So I was able to go on from page to page reasonably quickly. (I need to establish which 2 week period of August we are going to be away from London area, so I've been holding off arrangements until the Proms prospectus was available).

[Bryn]

"The Scratch Orchestra"
turns out to be this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/events/e64fbp

So not really THE scratch orchestra at all
but i'm sure it will be fun

Though it was, and is, frequently referred to a "The Scratch Orchestra", Cardew's Draft Constitution was for "A Scratch Orchestra", "scratch orchestra" being a well-worn term long before the June 1969 edition of Musical Times. Come to that, Phil Dadson set up a Scratch Orchestra (based on Cardew's concept) in Aukland when he returned to New Zealand shortly after the publication the Draft Constitution. As far as I'm concerned, the 1984, 2000 and 2015 performances of all or parts of Cardew's The Great Learning were each performed by a Scratch Orchestra. It is a bit naughty of the Proms to call their scratch orchestra "The Scratch Orcheatra" though.

[Constantbee]

Bit of an unbalanced First Night !

A bit, yes. Sounds like the sort of back to front programming we saw in 2017. Presumably it's a showcase for the 2018 Proms commitment to 50:50 new women composers. Well, fine, but at 22 minutes it's a short second half and the Meredith piece(s?) will be very exposed on the First Night.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If you click on the concert titles instead of Show more information you just get the details - no 'waffle'. One click per concert doesn't seem a lot these days.

But it's still 180 clicks! Why isn't the more important information given immediately, and the gushy waffle reached by clicking? (I mean - look at the info for Prom 3; we can see instantly that it's the "Young Musicians 40th Anniversary", and that this will be celbrated by some past YMotY winners. But what are the works featured? Click on "Show More Info", and you get a list of the works; but then you have to scroll down for over thirty lines to get to the "Less Information" link to take you back to the "What's On?" page. That's an extreme case (because of all the performers involved), but even on all the others, there is no "instant" way of seeing what's on the programme; you have to scroll to get to the "Less Information" arrow.

But the magnitude of this faff isn't really what I think some of us are complaining about: it's the sheer fact that there is a faff at all. For the purposes of finding out what's on when, a "Proms at a Glance" feature would be less annoying/disspiriting.

[teamsaint]

But it's still 180 clicks! Why isn't the more important information given immediately, and the gushy waffle reached by clicking? (I mean - look at the info for Prom 3; we can see instantly that it's the "Young Musicians 40th Anniversary", and that this will be celbrated by some past YMotY winners. But what are the works featured? Click on "Show More Info", and you get a list of the works; but then you have to scroll down for over thirty lines to get to the "Less Information" link to take you back to the "What's On?" page. That's an extreme case (because of all the performers involved), but even on all the others, there is no "instant" way of seeing what's on the programme; you have to scroll to get to the "Less Information" arrow.

But the magnitude of this faff isn't really what I think some of us are complaining about: it's the sheer fact that there is a faff at all. For the purposes of finding out what's on when, a "Proms at a Glance" feature would be less annoying/disspiriting.

The Barbican website is almost, as bad.

Its easy really.One page with Date. Works. Performers. Basic ticket info for each event.
Click through to marketing waffle, and then an easy click back to basic details, which is where the Barbican website falls down, taking you back to the month overview.

[Demetrius]

hmmm. Someone seen Prom 53 anywhere? 52 is the Bergen Phil on Tuesday 21/8, 54 is the Budapest Festival Orchestra at Wednesday 22/8

[Demetrius]

but Diana Damrau singing 13 minutes of Strauss seems rather short order!

The new 17 minute long commission is also sung by her.

[teamsaint]

Incidentally, I have a useful little filter on my laptop, which screens out all proms featuring:

Haydn
Contemporary works that aren't Proms commissions or late night proms.
British C20 music other than RVW and Elgar
Many European Mid C20 works, ( Martinu, Honegger stuff like that)
Almost all Symphonies never previously heard at the Proms.
Roussel
Schnittke
Non Sibelius Scandinavians


It works a treat, very helpful in cutting down on the abundance of choice.

( the odd thing slips through the filter....and o

[MrGongGong]

Though it was, and is, frequently referred to a "The Scratch Orchestra", Cardew's Draft Constitution was for "A Scratch Orchestra", "scratch orchestra" being a well-worn term long before the June 1969 edition of Musical Times. Come to that, Phil Dadson set up a Scratch Orchestra (based on Cardew's concept) in Aukland when he returned to New Zealand shortly after the publication the Draft Constitution. As far as I'm concerned, the 1984, 2000 and 2015 performances of all or parts of Cardew's The Great Learning were each performed by a Scratch Orchestra. It is a bit naughty of the Proms to call their scratch orchestra "The Scratch Orcheatra" though.

Thanks for this

It is interesting that "From Scratch" sound more like Echo City, Man Jumping or The Lost Jockey than anything by Cardew

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Incidentally, I have a useful little filter on my laptop, which screens out all proms featuring ...

When you say "screens out", do you mean "highlights", ts?!

[LHC]

The Barbican website is almost, as bad.

Its easy really.One page with Date. Works. Performers. Basic ticket info for each event.
Click through to marketing waffle, and then an easy click back to basic details, which is where the Barbican website falls down, taking you back to the month overview.

Yes, but the Barbican also provide a downloadable PDF summary providing all the basic details:

https://www.barbican.org.uk/sites/default/files/documents/2018-01/Classical%20Music%20A5%202018%EF%80%A219%20Summary%20sheet%20LR.pdf