Proms 2018

[Richard Tarleton]

My one experience of this recently, apart from Proms on the radio or TV, was at a BBC NOW concert of baroque music in Swansea's Brangwyn Hall (the concert that included the famous car-crash Brandenburg 2). The first item on the programme was a Handel Concerto grosso (Op 6 no 6), which only lasts for about 16 minutes in total. After the first movement, i.e. after a couple of minutes, there was a bit of applause from one part of the hall which Rachel Podger, from the leader's chair, silenced with a gesture - finger to lips (and a smile) as I recall.

I think the people clapping fell into ff's first category - anyway, we had no further trouble in spite of there being 4 more multi-movement works. Anyway, Ms Podger clearly thought inter-movement applause in a Handel concerto grosso was inappropriate.

[Beef Oven!]

My one experience of this recently, apart from Proms on the radio or TV, was at a BBC NOW concert of baroque music in Swansea's Brangwyn Hall (the concert that included the famous car-crash Brandenburg 2). The first item on the programme was a Handel Concerto grosso (Op 6 no 6), which only lasts for about 16 minutes in total. After the first movement, i.e. after a couple of minutes, there was a bit of applause from one part of the hall which Rachel Podger, from the leader's chair, silenced with a gesture - finger to lips (and a smile) as I recall.

I think the people clapping fell into ff's first category - anyway, we had no further trouble in spite of there being 4 more multi-movement works. Anyway, Ms Podger clearly thought inter-movement applause in a Handel concerto grosso was inappropriate.

I guess she's entitled to her own opinion regarding the relationship between the performer and the audience. Happily, we also have such an entitlement.

[Bryn]

I guess she's entitled to her own opinion regarding the relationship between the performer and the audience. Happily, we also have such an entitlement.

indeed, as did the composer, who would most likely have expected and appreciated it.

[ahinton]

I think that it might at this point be worth noting the difference between those who seek to insist that there be no applause between movements and those who harbour no such desire but at the same time do not like it.

In practical terms, a work like Turangalîla is something of a case in point, not only is there the factor that applause after all ten movements might considerably extend the overall duration as well as disturbing listeners' (and perhaps also players') concentration but also the conclusions (if any) that might be drawn from there being applause after only some of the movements.

[Bryn]

Hmm. Given that the composer specifically sanctioned the performance of various selections of movements from the work*, I really do not see any particular 'problem' relating to this symphony.

* those specific movements being III, IV, V, in that order, or I, II, VI, IX, X, in that order.

[Richard Tarleton]

......
In practical terms, a work like Turangalîla is something of a case in point, not only is there the factor that applause after all ten movements might considerably extend the overall duration as well as disturbing listeners' (and perhaps also players') concentration but also the conclusions (if any) that might be drawn from there being applause after only some of the movements.

At the other end of the scale, the same might apply to a 16-minute suite with several very short movements (see above). Applause (from a small section of the audience) every two or three minutes is downright irritating, besides disturbing concentration and extending the work. A little silence for a bit of discreet re-tuning is also welcome, from the players' point of view. I haven't heard or read anything Rachel Podger may have said or written on the subject, so don't know her views in depth. But she and the majority in the hall were clearly on the same page. She is one of the leading baroque practitioners del mundo, so I'm inclined to give her views (if such they are) a little more weight.

[LMcD]

'Das Wandern ist des Müllers Lust'
Maybe half-a-dozen people applaud
'Das Wandern'
Maybe a dozen people applaud.

[french frank]

I guess she's entitled to her own opinion regarding the relationship between the performer and the audience. Happily, we also have such an entitlement.

I wonder what you would have done, had you been present on that occasion

indeed, as did the composer, who would most likely have expected and appreciated it.

I can't see that that is relevant, since the composer was one person who wasn't present. And even you modify your statement with 'most likely'.

It's a bit like the argument about whether Beethoven, say, would have appreciated a modern concert grand. He may well have done. Would he have welcomed the modern silence between movements? Oh, no, of course he wouldn't. Experiencing and thinking about what didn't exist in their day may well meet with a composer's approval, especially if they have a 'modernist' outlook

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

indeed, as did the composer, who would most likely have expected and appreciated it.

This is hardly relevant. The composer's dead. The adulation, that would mean so much to the creator, might be a factor at the premiere, but now it's just an intrusion by inconsiderate attention-seekers, or people who don't know when the music's finished, or those who lack self-discipline.

[Bryn]

I wonder what you would have done, had you been present on that occasion



I can't see that that is relevant, since the composer was one person who wasn't present. And even you modify your statement with 'most likely'.

It's a bit like the argument about whether Beethoven, say, would have appreciated a modern concert grand. He may well have done. Would he have welcomed the modern silence between movements? Oh, no, of course he wouldn't. Experiencing and thinking about what didn't exist in their day may well meet with a composer's approval, especially if they have a 'modernist' outlook

You've got that spade out again, haven't you?

[french frank]

an intrusion by inconsiderate attention-seekers, or people who don't know when the music's finished, or those who lack self-discipline.

Or those with a sense of 'entitlement'.

[french frank]

You've got that spade out again, haven't you?

For a dimwit, could you explain what you mean rather than keep repeating it?

[Bryn]

This is hardly relevant. The composer's dead. The adulation, that would mean so much to the creator, might be a factor at the premiere, but now it's just an intrusion by inconsiderate attention-seekers, or people who don't know when the music's finished, or those who lack self-discipline.

You are confounding your personal opinion with fact. I consider assertions of "attention-seeking" in this context as pure snobbery. That's is my opinion.

[Beef Oven!]

I went to the Comedy Store a few years ago and we were told not to laugh at the end of each joke, but to wait to the conclusion of the performance. Happily, we were all very social people with plenty of self control and no urge to seek attention, so it worked a treat.

[Bryn]

For a dimwit, could you explain what you mean rather than keep repeating it?

No problem. The performance in question supposedly followed HIPP, i.e. Historically Informed Performance Practice. In such circumstances, audience responses in line with historical practice are to be expected. As you know, I also reckon, supposedly HIPP opera productions should pay due attention to custume and production values of the period of the work's compostion. At least, where opera is concerned, audience responses tend to equate more to historical tradition.