Proms 2018

[Suffolkcoastal]

Schmidt's 4th is a very fine work, I hope people will take the opportunity to hear it played by the BPO & good to see it programmed here.

[french frank]

The first half of the last night seems to be missing .... unless it's going to be very short.

Could be the Stephen Hough idea,

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Schmidt's 4th is a very fine work, I hope people will take the opportunity to hear it played by the BPO & good to see it programmed here.

- the first of Petrenko's pair of BPO concerts are among the few I've marked as "must hear this".

[Nick Armstrong]

- the first of Petrenko's pair of BPO concerts are among the few I've marked as "must hear this".

(I overlooked this concert on my first scan through the season.... )

[EdgeleyRob]

If I had my way - and loadsa money, which often amounts to the same thing - I would attempt to organise a Proms (or equivalent) season based on neglected composers. Each concert would include one popular or well-known honey trap piece, to bring in punters; and I would place that work either second or third on the menu, so that people attending, who by the way would be expected to arrive promptly in time for the start of proceedings, would have to sit or stand through at least one usually unfamiliar composer's work, such as Berwald, before being allowed their sweetie. Having then discovered and liked, indeed, possibly even loved, said unfamiliar work and its composer, they might well be receptive to hearing more. I'm not talking here only about ultra-modern works which some will say is what deters would be comers; there are huge numbers of pieces which would be thoroughly accessible to many an ineluctable ignorant: one that comes immediately to mind would be Kabalevsky's Violin Concerto, whose slow movement offers an earworm to die for.

[DracoM]

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'm not talking here only about ultra-modern works which some will say is what deters would be comers;

If I had my way/loadsa money, I'd actually include some "ultra-modern works" in the Proms for a change.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... not to mention a few "ultra-early" works, too!

[french frank]

If I had my way - and loadsa money, which often amounts to the same thing - I would attempt to organise a Proms (or equivalent) season based on neglected composers.

I was wondering what different people might make of the challenge of starting off with a fairly blank sheet (a lot of the slots would have been prebooked three or four years ago). Thinking about "2018", what might be appropriate themes.

My feeling is that starting with Ten Pieces (again) an important strand is for a (very) young audience. Thinking back to the early days of the Proms when Wood and Newman wanted to "create an audience" for classical (= "good" ) music, they were very successful in that. But perhaps we're the tail-end of that audience, and the job does have to be started again with a couple of generations having drifted entirely away? In which case we have the reason why Radio 3, certainly, and aspects of the Proms tend to be a disappointment?

[Anastasius]

.... One click per concert doesn't seem a lot these days.

It is if you have arthritic hands.

[french frank]

It is if you have arthritic hands.

Sorry to hear that, but you have to click a few times in this place. Anyway, you now have Andrew's One-Page Listing. Just one click and they're all there (except No 53):

https://www.radio-lists.org.uk/proms/2018/promslist_2018.php

I wonder if the unnumbered Inspire Concert is No 53?

[Demetrius]

I was wondering what different people might make of the challenge of starting off with a fairly blank sheet (a lot of the slots would have been prebooked three or four years ago). Thinking about "2018", what might be appropriate themes.

My feeling is that starting with Ten Pieces (again) an important strand is for a (very) young audience. Thinking back to the early days of the Proms when Wood and Newman wanted to "create an audience" for classical (= "good" ) music, [...]

Did Wood go after the very young audience, though?

Not that it is a bad idea. I've been trying to get more of my peers into concerts, and the greatest barrier seems to be that they are afraid of the venues and of being adequate listeners. (I've hooked a DJ recently, though ) So get the children used to going to concerts and Proms. Doesn't mean that they will be massive concert goers during their teens, but it makes the later reentry much easier

Interestingly, you can get to new and younger audiences through new(ish) and neglected music, too. Example: Kristjan Järvis MDR SO seasons were based on names such as Tüür, Gade, Gorecki, Rautavaara, Tabakova, Tubin, Chavez, etc., and yet half of the audience still has their natural hair colour. He will be gone in a few months, and next years season seems ... ill-adviced. Brahms, Mahler, Schumann, Ravel, Mozart, more Mahler, Beethoven, even more Mahler. I expect them to loose the younger audience they gained during the Järvi years due to his style and music choices without attracting the more conservative audience. If you got the choice between Mahler with the MDR SO and Mahler with Nelsons and either BSO or Gewandhaus ...

[french frank]

Did Wood go after the very young audience, though?

He certainly didn't with the Proms. But there's a feeling that if you're in for the long game, you go for the very young ones. The fact that that means that older prommers will find there's a lot which isn't very attractive to them should be (should be) counterbalanced by the fact that there is a lot which is. As with Radio 3 there should be a balance between what is explicitly for "new listeners" and what isn't. But a one-off series like Young Musician can't be presented partly for children and partly for adults unless there are two parallel programmes - which is perfectly possible. Why not run them on CBeebies and BBC Four? And I'm all for Proms contributions from someone like Jonny Greenwood - though Pet Shops Boys?

[teamsaint]

He certainly didn't with the Proms. But there's a feeling that if you're in for the long game, you go for the very young ones. The fact that that means that older prommers will find there's a lot which isn't very attractive to them should be (should be) counterbalanced by the fact that there is a lot which is. As with Radio 3 there should be a balance between what is explicitly for "new listeners" and what isn't. But a one-off series like Young Musician can't be presented partly for children and partly for adults unless there are two parallel programmes - which is perfectly possible. Why not run them on CBeebies and BBC Four? And I'm all for Proms contributions from someone like Jonny Greenwood - though Pet Shops Boys?

Why Jonny Greenwood rather than the PSBs ?
If those people have a place, it seems to me that the place should be as part of a thought-through presentation of something resembling a continuum, otherwise either just looks like box ticking.

I realise of course that this is just an opinion, and all sorts of ideas and presentations can work well, and that surprise, being confronted with the unexpected, is an important element in ones own development.

[french frank]

Why Jonny Greenwood rather than the PSBs ?

I thought it was quite bold-foolish to appoint Jonny Greenwood as Composer in Association to - was it the Concert Orchestra? - to let him dabble and learn something in the process because he had already shown talent. I think he had already been stepping outside the Radiohead pop catagory which is why he, as distinct from Radiohead, was offered this role and the commissions which followed. The 2014 concert was sold as "Pet Shop Boys", presumably to attract the desired audience; Proms of 2009 and 2011 weren't sold as "Jonny Greenwood".

I'm not sure that "box-ticking" should always be derided (depends what it is). It sounds a bit like criticising "political correctness".