Prom 64 - 1.09.17: Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra and Daniele Gatti

[Barbirollians]

Not a thriller of a performance I agree . To me putting such a great orchestra on at 6.30 so we can get a late night popular Prom on strikes me as highly disrespectful .

[Petrushka]

Was this really the Royal Concertgebouw? It must have been because we were told so but this was a shocker of a performance. Whether the fault lies with the podium or the radio control room was hard to tell but there was no blend between sections and the sound was puzzling to listen to. There were far too many occasions when the music seemed to hang fire and, as has been noted, the usually nerve-shredding end to the first movement went for nothing so that's a problem coming from the podium.

I do wonder whether there is a fundamental mismatch between Gatti and the orchestra as they played here without conviction or enthusiasm. Gatti's seeming dismissal in the pre-performance interview of the Concertgebouw's rich heritage in this music elicited a note of surprise from Petroc so I'm wondering if all is not well.

Sad to hear this after the stunning and unforgettable Bruckner 9 I recall so well from this orchestra and Haitink at the 1983 Proms.

[PaulT]

I expected great things from these artists but great things are not happening. Some ragged ensemble, dodgy intonation from the winds in this orchestra of all things. Some phrases lurch out of no where. There's no sense of arriving anywhere. I'm listening in Concert Sound and even that sounds diffuse. That's been exemplary all season so it's hard to believe the fault lies with the sound engineers. They can only give us what's there.

I was there. You heard at home what I heard in the hall. I wondered whether they had rehearsed the Bruckner in the RAH. At the end, Gatti just stood facing the orchestra stony faced. Then there were the usual handshakes, acknowledgement of sections and individuals but Gatti seemed to be more interested in getting off the stage. There was music on the stands for an encore, there was time for an encore, some of the players opened their music. But it didn't happen. There was no encore. Hopefully Gatti will review, make redress and tomorrow will be a better night. By the way, Petroc's eyes deceived him. The front desk flautist didn't catch Gatti's falling baton. She picked it up from the floor and gently placed it on Gatti's music stand.

[Sir Velo]

We finish, Mahler; we finish Elgar.

But we don't finish Schubert and we don't finish Bruckner.

Quite a few conductors don't or didnt perform the Mahler 10 realisations, notably Karajan, Bernstein, Abbado and Haitink. As for Elgar there was nothing to perform until Anthony Payne came along. The Bruckner completions are recent and therefore need time to establish themselves, particularly as the three movement torso is satisfying in most performances.

[Maclintick]

I'm never sure whether the RCO's sound is really all that fitted to the RAH; something gets lost. When I heard them under Jansons it often sounded quite routine, in contrast to his performances with the BRSO, which were usually outstanding.

It's a different generation of players now, but the Prom performances of Bruckner 5 & DSCH8 the then Concertgebouw Orchestra gave under Bernard Haitink in the 80s were sensational. Perhaps the "Royal" appellation has softened them a bit...?

[richardfinegold]

Not long now before we find we all got it wrong, and that it was truly magnificent performance in every respect.

With this being a visiting orchestra I was sort of hoping for a completion of the Finale as an encore. Now I most definitely don't want such.

"The food in this restaurant is terrible! And such small portions!"

[richardfinegold]

Was this really the Royal Concertgebouw? It must have been because we were told so but this was a shocker of a performance. Whether the fault lies with the podium or the radio control room was hard to tell but there was no blend between sections and the sound was puzzling to listen to. There were far too many occasions when the music seemed to hang fire and, as has been noted, the usually nerve-shredding end to the first movement went for nothing so that's a problem coming from the podium.

I do wonder whether there is a fundamental mismatch between Gatti and the orchestra as they played here without conviction or enthusiasm. Gatti's seeming dismissal in the pre-performance interview of the Concertgebouw's rich heritage in this music elicited a note of surprise from Petroc so I'm wondering if all is not well.

Sad to hear this after the stunning and unforgettable Bruckner 9 I recall so well from this orchestra and Haitink at the 1983 Proms.

I had streamed Gatti and the RCO in the Symphonie Fantastitique a few weeks back and I thought it was simply awful. Otoh the RCO put out a Mahler cycle a few years ago with a different Conductor for each work and his 5th was very good. Something seems to have gone wrong with this partnership in the interim

[mahlerei]

I had streamed Gatti and the RCO in the Symphonie Fantastitique a few weeks back and I thought it was simply awful. Otoh the RCO put out a Mahler cycle a few years ago with a different Conductor for each work and his 5th was very good. Something seems to have gone wrong with this partnership in the interim

I must agree about the Berlioz, which I reviewed a while back. The auguries were not good then and, I am afraid, Gatti's RCO Live Resurrection does nothing to dispel the concerns raised here.

[Alison]

It's a different generation of players now, but the Prom performances of Bruckner 5 & DSCH8 the then Concertgebouw Orchestra gave under Bernard Haitink in the 80s were sensational. Perhaps the "Royal" appellation has softened them a bit...?

My dad still talks about that DSCH 8. I never did like the 'royal' appellation.

[DracoM]

Yes, indeed, different generation of both players and audience BUT I've just re-played the 1984 Ashkenazy / RConc Rachmaninov Symphonic Dances etc, and there is the richness, delicacy, fluency, and sheer exuberant power / teamwork I always associate with the band. I then played some Haitink [Bruckner ] with them - different weight, BUT the same richness and sense of movement.

IMO, ALL that was missing in the Prom. Felt very much to me as if the band were trying to make a point to the conductor on one of the biggest stages - why, ...?
Shrug because I'm afraid I don't see what was going on. But certainly all did not seem well.

[Maclintick]

My dad still talks about that DSCH 8.

Memorable indeed. That DSCH8 concert took place just after one of the most horrific incidents of the Cold War, when the Russians shot down a Korean Airlines 747 over the Kamchatka Peninsula, killing all 269 passengers. The Concertgebouw, BH, & the RAH audience quite obviously shared the resulting international shock & revulsion -- BH & his players giving the fullest possible expression to DSCH's rawest evocation of suffering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007

[Petrushka]

My dad still talks about that DSCH 8. I never did like the 'royal' appellation.

I, too, was present at that unforgettable Prom (Sept 5 1983). The Bruckner 9 two nights before was, if anything, even more memorable. The newspaper reviews were ecstatic and when I went backstage afterwards to meet Haitink, the articles were pinned up on the wall.

Quite what was going on last night is a mystery but the Bruckner 9 was a performance so bad that I was struggling to believe I was listening to a professional orchestra. It was as if they were purposely sabotaging Gatti's interpretation. He has performed the work at the Proms with the RPO and I can't remember any problems on that occasion. Gatti has barely got his knees brown with the RCO and already the omens do not look good. If the orchestra see off another conductor in double quick time then who is going to want to take on the job? A poisoned chalice if ever there was one and a terrible shame for those of us who remember what a great orchestra this is.

Any reviews of last night appeared yet?

[Conchis]

I, too, was present at that unforgettable Prom (Sept 5 1983). The Bruckner 9 two nights before was, if anything, even more memorable. The newspaper reviews were ecstatic and when I went backstage afterwards to meet Haitink, the articles were pinned up on the wall.

Quite what was going on last night is a mystery but the Bruckner 9 was a performance so bad that I was struggling to believe I was listening to a professional orchestra. It was as if they were purposely sabotaging Gatti's interpretation. He has performed the work at the Proms with the RPO and I can't remember any problems on that occasion. Gatti has barely got his knees brown with the RCO and already the omens do not look good. If the orchestra see off another conductor in double quick time then who is going to want to take on the job? A poisoned chalice if ever there was one and a terrible shame for those of us who remember what a great orchestra this is.

Any reviews of last night appeared yet?

I was at that RPO/Gatti Prom in 1999 (as was Bernard Levin, as I remember it).

I remember it as a good performance, with one defect which unfortunately came in a very prominent place: one of the horns cracked on the very final note of the symphony.

The reviews of the Bruckner Prom seem totally polarised.

[DracoM]

<< The reviews of the Bruckner Prom seem totally polarised.>>

Can you quote us a few?

[Darkbloom]

I, too, was present at that unforgettable Prom (Sept 5 1983). The Bruckner 9 two nights before was, if anything, even more memorable. The newspaper reviews were ecstatic and when I went backstage afterwards to meet Haitink, the articles were pinned up on the wall.

Quite what was going on last night is a mystery but the Bruckner 9 was a performance so bad that I was struggling to believe I was listening to a professional orchestra. It was as if they were purposely sabotaging Gatti's interpretation. He has performed the work at the Proms with the RPO and I can't remember any problems on that occasion. Gatti has barely got his knees brown with the RCO and already the omens do not look good. If the orchestra see off another conductor in double quick time then who is going to want to take on the job? A poisoned chalice if ever there was one and a terrible shame for those of us who remember what a great orchestra this is.

Any reviews of last night appeared yet?

I think Karajan stopped conducting Mahler 9 after a performance where he felt it couldn't be bettered. If those Haitink performances were so memorable, it must have been tempting to put the scores away and focus on something else. It's a bit like trying to recreate a fabulous holiday - it never works and just feels depressing.