Prom 51 - 22.08.17: Sibelius, Saint-Saens and Elgar–Payne

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  • Eine Alpensinfonie
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 20569

    Prom 51 - 22.08.17: Sibelius, Saint-Saens and Elgar–Payne

    19:30 Tuesday 22 August 2017
    Royal Albert Hall

    Jean Sibelius: Scènes historiques – Suite No. 1
    Camille Saint‐Saëns: Piano Concerto No 2 in G minor
    Edward Elgar /Anthony Payne: Symphony No 3 (elab. Payne)


    Javier Perianes piano
    BBC Symphony Orchestra
    Sakari Oramo conductor

    This year's Elgar cycle concludes with the originally unfinished Third Symphony. The concert also features the vivid, descriptive miniatures of Sibelius's Scènes historiques and Saint-Saëns's brilliantly youthful Second Piano Concerto.
    Last edited by Eine Alpensinfonie; 19-08-17, 18:46.
  • Eine Alpensinfonie
    Host
    • Nov 2010
    • 20569

    #2
    There are those who regret the completion of Elgar 3, but I love it, especially the slow movement.

    Comment

    • mrbouffant
      Full Member
      • Aug 2011
      • 207

      #3
      Originally posted by Eine Alpensinfonie View Post
      There are those who regret the completion of Elgar 3, but I love it, especially the slow movement.
      As a work, I love it. I care not much for which bits are Elgar and which are Payne.

      I shall qualify the adoration by stating I think the ending is a bit of a cop out. Then again, what was Payne to do? There was absolutely nothing in the sketches.

      Comment

      • Hornspieler
        Late Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 1847

        #4
        Originally posted by mrbouffant View Post
        As a work, I love it. I care not much for which bits are Elgar and which are Payne.

        I shall qualify the adoration by stating I think the ending is a bit of a cop out. Then again, what was Payne to do? There was absolutely nothing in the sketches.
        Leave it alone and write his own symphony (the same goes for Mahler's 10th in my opinion)

        HS

        ( I'm thinking of writing a play by Shakespeare, based on extracts from some of his unfinished sonnets)

        Comment

        • BBMmk2
          Late Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 20908

          #5
          Sir Andrew Davis's recording of the completed Payne edition, really done it for me. O am looking forward to this because Oramo did a fantastic job with the Mahler.
          Don’t cry for me
          I go where music was born

          J S Bach 1685-1750

          Comment

          • ferneyhoughgeliebte
            Gone fishin'
            • Sep 2011
            • 30163

            #6
            I think that it's a very good work (and I prefer to hear it than some of Elgar's "legit" pieces). It's quite right to refer to it as "Elgar/Payne" - AP's work making the Symphony "available" deserves credit alongside Elgar's: and I find the final Tam-tam stroke very effective.

            (An entirely different situation, of course, from the Cooke/Mahler #10, which is complete - not a bar missing - but unfinished [as in "lacking finish"].)
            [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

            Comment

            • Bryn
              Banned
              • Mar 2007
              • 24688

              #7
              Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
              I think that it's a very good work (and I prefer to hear it than some of Elgar's "legit" pieces). It's quite right to refer to it as "Elgar/Payne" - AP's work making the Symphony "available" deserves credit alongside Elgar's: and I find the final Tam-tam stroke very effective.

              (An entirely different situation, of course, from the Cooke/Mahler #10, which is complete - not a bar missing - but unfinished [as in "lacking finish"].)
              Well put sir. Appreciation of what Payne did is enhanced, I feel, by the content of this BBCMM cover disc:



              Sadly, I no longer have the accompanying issue of the magazine itself.
              Last edited by Bryn; 21-08-17, 11:34. Reason: Link to ebay offer added.

              Comment

              • Nick Armstrong
                Host
                • Nov 2010
                • 26522

                #8
                Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                I think that it's a very good work (and I prefer to hear it than some of Elgar's "legit" pieces). It's quite right to refer to it as "Elgar/Payne" - AP's work making the Symphony "available" deserves credit alongside Elgar's: and I find the final Tam-tam stroke very effective.

                (An entirely different situation, of course, from the Cooke/Mahler #10, which is complete - not a bar missing - but unfinished [as in "lacking finish"].)
                Going to be at this one, and looking forward very much! Will be fascinating to hear it live for the first time. And I have a huge regard for Oramo's way with Elgar.
                "...the isle is full of noises,
                Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                Comment

                • PJPJ
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 1461

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                  Going to be at this one, and looking forward very much! Will be fascinating to hear it live for the first time. And I have a huge regard for Oramo's way with Elgar.
                  So do I; I think his two BIS recordings are superb in all respects. And this one is excellent, too:

                  Favourite English Strings

                  Comment

                  • edashtav
                    Full Member
                    • Jul 2012
                    • 3667

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                    [...] And I have a huge regard for Oramo's way with Elgar.
                    I'm yet another admirer of his perceptive conducting of Elgar.

                    Comment

                    • pastoralguy
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 7737

                      #11
                      Having gone through an obsession with the Elgar/Payne 3rd Symphony, (including playing in the Scottish Premiere!), I've not listened to it for years now but I'm enjoying this performance. I still think the first movement is the strongest although the others have interesting things too.
                      Last edited by pastoralguy; 22-08-17, 20:28.

                      Comment

                      • Petrushka
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 12232

                        #12
                        Originally posted by pastoralguy View Post
                        Having gone through an obsession with the Elgar/Payne 3rd Symphony, (including playing in the Scottish Premiere!), I've not listened to it for years now but I'm enjoying this performance. I still think the first movement is the strongest although the others have interesting things too.
                        I had a similar obsession and bought all of the available recordings as soon as they came out. I also went to the Proms premiere in 1998 and met Anthony Payne at the pre-Prom talk. His book (published by Faber & Faber) about the reconstruction makes fascinating reading. I've listened to the work many times and consider it a masterpiece and Oramo's performance did it full justice. I love the two outer movements more than the two inner and love the hauntingly beautiful second subject of the first movement above all.
                        "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                        Comment

                        • edashtav
                          Full Member
                          • Jul 2012
                          • 3667

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Petrushka View Post
                          [re Elgar...] I've listened to the work many times and consider it a masterpiece and Oramo's performance did it full justice. I love the two outer movements more than the two inner and love the hauntingly beautiful second subject of the first movement above all.
                          I'm in full agreement, Petrushka... yes, that second subject is a wonderful earworm.

                          A thought occurred to me thanks to having works by Sibelius and Elgar in the same concert. One similarity between the two composers is that many of their works celebrate nation building.

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37578

                            #14
                            Originally posted by edashtav View Post
                            I'm in full agreement, Petrushka... yes, that second subject is a wonderful earworm.

                            A thought occurred to me thanks to having works by Sibelius and Elgar in the same concert. One similarity between the two composers is that many of their works celebrate nation building.
                            Err - in the case of Sibelius, yes; in Elgar's, can't quite see how?

                            Comment

                            • edashtav
                              Full Member
                              • Jul 2012
                              • 3667

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                              Err - in the case of Sibelius, yes; in Elgar's, can't quite see how?
                              Elgar and Nation Building:
                              Banner of St George
                              Caractacus
                              Cockaigne
                              Crown of India
                              Pomp and Circumstance Marches including Land of Hope and Glory
                              Falstaff
                              Empire March
                              Coronation Ode

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