Prom 50 - 21.08.17: Beethoven, Stravinsky and Gerald Barry

[kernelbogey]

I think it helped to have heard the composer discussing it in the pre-prom talk. It had nothing to do with Canada per se, obviously, it was more of an idee fixe that came to him while he was stuck in customs and subsequently elaborated on. I don't particularly want to hear it again but I thought it worked well as part of the programme. It wasn't intended to be taken seriously and I thought it made a refreshing change. I think the main thing about these sorts of novelties is that they be short and don't wear out their welcome.

[Zucchini]

I was convinced by Mirga's LvB 5 on first hearing.
Like discovering it for the first time all over again.

So was I and so it seems, most reviewers:

https://cbso.co.uk/news/cbso-at-the-bbc-proms

Dazzling orchestral playing and wonderful detail

[Bryn]

Only now got round to listening to this concert (the televised version, from hard disc, having edited it into chapters ready for burning to Blu-ray). I have to admit that Leonore III is always disrupted for me by expectations of Leonore IV bursting forth. Very much looking forward to hearing the rest. From the clips I heard while editing, the Stravinsky is likely to be regarded by me as a supplement to the likes of Stern, rather than in any way supplanting them. The bits of Beethoven 5 I caught promise great things.

[Braunschlag]

So was I and so it seems, most reviewers:

https://cbso.co.uk/news/cbso-at-the-bbc-proms

Dazzling orchestral playing and wonderful detail

Well, I gave the Beethoven a go and remain unconvinced, appreciating that's it's all a matter of personal taste.
What didn't convince me was the clipped phrasing, overdone staccato and, if one does insist on using antique trumpets at least make sure they are played well - far too many splits for a professional orchestra.
I'd be interested to know where the offstage trumpet was in Leonore and whether or not it was a modern instrument, couldn't work it out on the tv transmission.
I'll nail my colours to the post and freely admit that I dislike HIP with a missionary zeal but I have no wish to take issue with those who do, each to their own and this sort of diverse opinion and taste does enrich the musical world.
I went straight back to a quick burst of Leibowitz afterwards and restored my temporary disappointment.
Mirga? I really don't know how anyone follows the flapping gestures but the band seemed to know what they were doing.

[vinteuil]

I'll nail my colours to the post and freely admit that I dislike HIP with a missionary zeal....

... do you prefer Historically Uninformed Practice or Historically Misinformed Practice?


.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... do you prefer Historically Uninformed Practice or Historically Misinformed Practice?


.

We weren't discussing Roger Norrington. Please keep on topic.

[Alison]

Let's not have Mirga beyond criticism please. Zucchini, David Nice and Andrew Clements have already got the bug.

To me she looks like an excellent choice for CBSO yet I am certainly not reaching for any superlatives for that LVB Fifth.

Anyone care to address Tony's point about missing bars?

Don't forget to report back Nethersage.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Let's not have Mirga beyond criticism please. Zucchini, David Nice and Andrew Clements have already got the bug.

I'm yet to be convinced. I've never seen such diabolical conducting, though I freely admit that Furtwangler's technique was questionable, but the end results were incredible.

[Braunschlag]

I'm yet to be convinced. I've never seen such diabolical conducting, though I freely admit that Furtwangler's technique was questionable, but the end results were incredible.

I think that's what I was attempting to convey here. I found it difficult to fathom the relationship between visual gesture and the orchestral result but it did seem to be working by some sort of osmosis. I suppose the musicians pick this up more readily during rehearsal.

[Braunschlag]

... do you prefer Historically Uninformed Practice or Historically Misinformed Practice?


.

Maybe I prefer unhistorical but musically interesting performances (interesting to me, I should add). If HIP is your thing that's fine by me but don't expect me to be convinced, I'm not. It's a broad church after all.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think that's what I was attempting to convey here. I found it difficult to fathom the relationship between visual gesture and the orchestral result but it did seem to be working by some sort of osmosis. I suppose the musicians pick this up more readily during rehearsal.

Maybe they just ignored the OTT and unrhythmic gestures and played it at a fast pace because they wanted to go home.

[Tony Halstead]

Maybe they just ignored the OTT and unrhythmic gestures and played it at a fast pace because they wanted to go home.

[Darkbloom]

I'll have to go and listen again to the Beethoven after all this discussion. I enjoyed it at the time but I think the criticisms are pretty valid. With standard rep perhaps there's a tendency to over-value self-consciously eye-catching performances simply because they offer something different.

[Bryn]

Let's not have Mirga beyond criticism please. Zucchini, David Nice and Andrew Clements have already got the bug.

To me she looks like an excellent choice for CBSO yet I am certainly not reaching for any superlatives for that LVB Fifth.

Anyone care to address Tony's point about missing bars?

Don't forget to report back Nethersage.

All this stuff about fast pacing. That's what Beethoven wanted, isn't it? However, cutting the fifth bar is just not on, and nor was the unmarked staccato approach. No, having listened to the whole thing, I join those who find it to have been a poor show. This curate's egg was just too lacking in good parts, if not entirely without them.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

All this stuff about fast pacing. That's what Beethoven wanted, isn't it? However, cutting the fifth bar is just not on, and nor was the unmarked staccato approach. No, having listened to the whole thing, I join those who find it to have been a poor show. This curate's egg was just too lacking in good parts, if not entirely without them.

- yup; that pretty much sums up my reaction to the performance, too; I'm glad I heard it (I had to stop watching the TV: too many Rowan Atkinson-type antics on the podium, leading to one-or-two moments of fluffed ensemble) and much preferred it to the Chailly or Harnoncourt/CMW or many other respected names. But far too much affected articulation imposed onto the score - and far too "samey" for this kaleidoscopic work. Krivine, Bruggens, and van Immerseel get much, much closer to the sort of things I imagine the score is meant to sound like (Krivine giving fantastic insights that I'd never before imagined) - but, perhaps surprisingly, it was the 1977 Karajan that I longed to hear immediately after this Prom had finished!