Prom 50 - 21.08.17: Beethoven, Stravinsky and Gerald Barry

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  • jayne lee wilson
    Banned
    • Jul 2011
    • 10711

    #16
    PROM 50 PART TWO. BEETHOVEN 5. CBSO/MG-T.
    R3 Concert Sound - very natural, spacious, dynamic - A1*!

    My word, what a very unusual Beethoven 5…

    Clipped, short-breathed phrasing in the 1st movement, sparing vibrato, but carefully building to greater dynamic excitement in the coda. So a preludial feel but with a sense of power in reserve. Good.
    The andante was distinctly con moto, with very flowing almost legato phrasing in quieter passages (I was reminded of Norrington’s approach in some of his SWR tapings), the climaxes perhaps played more for beauty than impact. I wondered where this performance was going…

    In the scherzo, we didn’t get the repeat of scherzo/trio; what we did get was some oddly soft, legato (again) phrasing in the trio from those double basses themselves, again favouring sweetness of tone over chewier or guttier energies; at a moderate tempo, this had a disconcertingly concertante effect, as if disassociated from the symphonic structure or argument.
    Then a self-consciously slow start to the transition, accelerating into the three big chords beginning the finale. Which were satisfyingly loud, but why the fussy pullback of dynamics immediately after them? I was also disappointed (but unsurprised in the context of this reading) by the omission of the finale repeat.
    The brass, splendid up to this point, began to show some strain here - poor intonation, a squawk or two. I found MG-T’s rubato unnatural in the coda, too deliberate, drawing too much attention to itself, like those strange dynamics aforementioned.

    ***

    So finally an uncertain impression from this 5th. With some HIPPs-ish stylistic affectations, but in the context of legato phrasing and glossy smoothness of tone, swift speeds yet short on repeats, there was a slight sense of “Concerto for City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra” about it.
    I heard little sense of the militaristic defiance, the revolutionary or rebellious anger, the defiance of fate - of new music on the ragged edge.
    The omission of both the (admittedly, or seemingly, optional) scherzo/trio repeat, and the one in the finale, always makes the symphony seem too short for the liberation of its own pent-up power, the battle not won at a great enough cost. It sells the work short, and tonight this only added to an emotionally lightweight impression, however fine the sound and wide the dynamic range, (Which were both very good on the lossless feed tonight).
    Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 22-08-17, 01:16.

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    • Zucchini
      Guest
      • Nov 2010
      • 917

      #17
      Quite a long, interesting (and v enthusiastic) review - no, not by NL - but no wasted words and without doubt David Nice was giving it full attention:

      Everything you may have read about Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla's wonder-working with her City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra is true. Confined to a Turkish hospital bed when their first Prom together took place last August, I wondered from the radio broadcast if the extremes in Tchaikovsky weren't too much. In the live experience last night, the miracle of the detail and the justification for even the most startling decisions proved totally convincing.


      I shall watch on TV at the weekend

      Comment

      • Barbirollians
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 11667

        #18
        I love the fact that the CBSO seem willing to be flexible with their programmes too . They added a concert out of the usual seasonal run by playing this programme at Symphony Hall on Sunday .

        Can't wait to hear what Vilde Frang and Mirga make of the Elgar Violin Concerto this autumn .

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        • kernelbogey
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 5735

          #19
          Bumping up - on BBC4 at 1900 tonight.

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          • kernelbogey
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 5735

            #20
            Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
            Bumping up - on BBC4 at 1900 tonight.
            Is it the producers who insist that the presenters grin and gurn continuously? So unnecessary.

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            • Alison
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 6455

              #21
              A splendid Leonora No 3 raising expectations not quite met in the Fifth.

              Jayne has said it all for me.

              Fine orchestral detail in the concerto and a real feeling for timbre.

              Just a nagging doubt perhaps how Mirga will fare in larger scale works but intrigued to hear her nonetheless.

              What a good programme.
              Last edited by Alison; 27-08-17, 20:35.

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              • Tony Halstead
                Full Member
                • Nov 2010
                • 1717

                #22
                Originally posted by Alison View Post
                A splendid Leonora No 3 raising expectations not quite met in the Fifth.

                Jayne has said it all for me.

                What a good programme.
                Agreed, a sensationally wonderful Leonora 3, so very gripping and joyous that it made my wife (a 'seasoned' period playing violinist who has played with pretty well all the London HIPP ensembles) cry.
                But... disappointment, oh dear oh dear, what a terrible rag-tag-and-bobtail Beethoven 5!
                1) Mirga deprived us of the 5th bar of the 1st movement ( it's supposed to be, including the 4th bar, at least twice as long as the 2nd bar!)
                2) She also allowed the 'period' trumpets to blast out all their entries with a piercing, brassy, 'ripping calico' sound irrespective of the context.
                3) leading to a general tendency for the entire performance ( 'interpretation'?) to be a) harsh and b) ugly. Very sorry to be so negative; others may disagree, of course.
                4) Far too many notes 'interpreted' as 'staccato' where no such indication in the score is given by Beethoven.
                Last edited by Tony Halstead; 28-08-17, 07:38.

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                • Belgrove
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 936

                  #23
                  Stravinsky's Violin concerto is one of the few works of this genre in which I have any interest, so I listened live to this concert, principally for this work, and then again on iPlayer and on BBC4. Initial impressions have hardened on repeat listenings, and I cannot agree with the consensus expressed here on the qualities of the performance. Josefowicz's interpretation, whilst necessarily virtuosic, was only that; being aggressive, abrasive, one-dimensional and deficient in the lyricism and melancholy that (say) Stern with Stravinsky or Kopatchinskaja with Jurowski have brought the score, qualities that give it a richer texture. The Beethoven 5 was interesting for its singularity, but it was a wilful interpretation lacking any revelations. The overall impression of this concert was of soloist and conductor serving their egos' rather than the music. Nevertheless good playing by the orchestra.

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                  • Richard Tarleton

                    #24
                    With important Canadian family connections I thought I'd better listen to "Canada". After two listens I'm left in a state of complete bafflement - at witnessing a joke I'm not in on, wondering if it's me or everyone else, a vague sense of embarrassment.... I missed the start of the concert and so will catch up on Leonora later. As to the rest, I'm grateful to Tony and Belgrove.....

                    Comment

                    • kernelbogey
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 5735

                      #25
                      Originally posted by Zucchini View Post
                      Quite a long, interesting (and v enthusiastic) review - no, not by NL - but no wasted words and without doubt David Nice was giving it full attention:

                      Everything you may have read about Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla's wonder-working with her City of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra is true. Confined to a Turkish hospital bed when their first Prom together took place last August, I wondered from the radio broadcast if the extremes in Tchaikovsky weren't too much. In the live experience last night, the miracle of the detail and the justification for even the most startling decisions proved totally convincing.


                      I shall watch on TV at the weekend
                      I may never get used to the most flatulent C major symphonic conclusion of all, which is probably my blind spot, but best that it be despatched with light and good humour. [David Nice]
                      However great the preceding performance I (nearly) always suffer from a form of inward giggles during the repeated chords at the end of this symphony.

                      Comment

                      • Eine Alpensinfonie
                        Host
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 20569

                        #26
                        Originally posted by kernelbogey View Post
                        Is it the producers who insist that the presenters grin and gurn continuously? So unnecessary.

                        Comment

                        • Once Was 4
                          Full Member
                          • Jul 2011
                          • 312

                          #27
                          Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
                          With important Canadian family connections I thought I'd better listen to "Canada". After two listens I'm left in a state of complete bafflement - at witnessing a joke I'm not in on, wondering if it's me or everyone else, a vague sense of embarrassment.... I missed the start of the concert and so will catch up on Leonora later. As to the rest, I'm grateful to Tony and Belgrove.....
                          Hear, hear on everything! (I have just spent three weeks in Canada visiting and taking a holiday with my relatives there). Joke? Joke? Sick joke surely? Why does the BBC like crap like this so much? I loved the Stravinsky and Beethoven though - but yes, No 5 was, well, 'different'.

                          Perhaps others with more expertise than me could comment on the use of period trumpets with modern horns etc. (great horns by the way).

                          Comment

                          • jonfan
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 1422

                            #28
                            A brilliantly conceived and executed programme, designed to entertain as well create reactions, as this thread testifies. On first hearing the Beethoven 5 last week my initial reaction was 'how awful' with clipped rhythms, rushed phrasing and flabby trio. On hearing it again I was totally converted and was hooked from first note to last. Mirga's comments to CBH in the interval served to justify her approach in expecting new discoveries each time in performance. The oasis of calm in the first movement at the oboe's cadenza was sublime, and I wasn't surprised to see that the golden, warm tones of Jennifer Galloway of the BBC Phil was oboe 1.
                            Natural trumpets with modern instruments were used by Harnencourt in his set of the symphonies with the COE and they may have been used before in other recordings? They are less strident than modern trumpets but balancing with modern horns doesn't seem to be a problem. I've played horn in the piece several times and how thrilling it is. Testing bit neat the end where exposed unison horns are required to play a legato rising piano arpeggio and then hold the top note. Just when the chops are getting tired.

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                            • EdgeleyRob
                              Guest
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 12180

                              #29
                              Originally posted by jonfan View Post
                              A brilliantly conceived and executed programme, designed to entertain as well create reactions, as this thread testifies. On first hearing the Beethoven 5 last week my initial reaction was 'how awful' with clipped rhythms, rushed phrasing and flabby trio. On hearing it again I was totally converted and was hooked from first note to last. Mirga's comments to CBH in the interval served to justify her approach in expecting new discoveries each time in performance. The oasis of calm in the first movement at the oboe's cadenza was sublime, and I wasn't surprised to see that the golden, warm tones of Jennifer Galloway of the BBC Phil was oboe 1. :

                              I was convinced by Mirga's LvB 5 on first hearing.
                              Like discovering it for the first time all over again.

                              Comment

                              • Darkbloom
                                Full Member
                                • Feb 2015
                                • 706

                                #30
                                Originally posted by Richard Tarleton View Post
                                With important Canadian family connections I thought I'd better listen to "Canada". After two listens I'm left in a state of complete bafflement - at witnessing a joke I'm not in on, wondering if it's me or everyone else, a vague sense of embarrassment.... I missed the start of the concert and so will catch up on Leonora later. As to the rest, I'm grateful to Tony and Belgrove.....
                                I think it helped to have heard the composer discussing it in the pre-prom talk. It had nothing to do with Canada per se, obviously, it was more of an idee fixe that came to him while he was stuck in customs and subsequently elaborated on. I don't particularly want to hear it again but I thought it worked well as part of the programme. It wasn't intended to be taken seriously and I thought it made a refreshing change. I think the main thing about these sorts of novelties is that they be short and don't wear out their welcome.

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