Prom 45 - 18.08.17: Mahler – ‘Resurrection’ Symphony

[Ferretfancy]

As ever, speed timings only tell half the story and looking at the timings for the first movement in isolation, not even half the story. If it works when considering the whole work, then it works, and that's exactly what happens in Tennstedt's live 1989 recording. In all honesty, sitting in the hall, I wasn't aware of any unduly protracted length in the first movement in Oramo's account. In any case, it is a movement originally entitled Todtenfeier - funeral rites - and I prefer it to have slower sections than some conductors are prepared to give.

Oramo gave a highly satisfactory performance aided by a BBC SO in tip-top condition. I was able to notice details not usually caught in recordings: has anyone noticed how often Mahler uses very soft suspended cymbal strokes in the Resurrection? He does so time and time again and I duly registered the detail.

It's a little known fact that when Mahler was scoring the Resurrection he suffered a mild attack of gout. Every time he felt a twinge he added a soft suspended cymbal. So there you are, more fuel for the cult.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's a little known fact that when Mahler was scoring the Resurrection he suffered a mild attack of gout. Every time he felt a twinge he added a soft suspended cymbal. So there you are, more fuel for the cult.

Haemorrhoids. (And quite a serious "attack" at that - he required surgery.)

[vinteuil]

Haemorrhoids. (And quite a serious "attack" at that - he required surgery.)

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http://images.delcampe.com/img_large/auction/000/128/884/810_002.jpg

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[PhilipT]

.. I arrived just as the stewards were turning literally hundreds of people away from the standing day queues.

I am sorry to hear that. It's painful to report this, but in the front rows of the Arena there was some, um, failure to cooperate with the stewards in the matter of standing up and moving forwards, despite repeated pleas from a bluecoat. It was an argument I tried hard to keep out of, but IMHO there is no doubt that in this case the stewards were right and certain prommers were very much in the wrong.

For what it's worth, which isn't much, I found the first movement somewhat disjointed, but it certainly came together from there on.

[Ferretfancy]

I am sorry to hear that. It's painful to report this, but in the front rows of the Arena there was some, um, failure to cooperate with the stewards in the matter of standing up and moving forwards, despite repeated pleas from a bluecoat. It was an argument I tried hard to keep out of, but IMHO there is no doubt that in this case the stewards were right and certain prommers were very much in the wrong.

For what it's worth, which isn't much, I found the first movement somewhat disjointed, but it certainly came together from there on.

The problem is that different listeners choose positions in the Arena that work for them. I'm very reluctant to move to a position which is too close for me. The solution is simple, I hold my ground and let others move in front of me, which surely meets most requirements. The real offenders are the ones who appear from nowhere and barge in just as the music begins.

[Darkbloom]

The problem is that different listeners choose positions in the Arena that work for them. I'm very reluctant to move to a position which is too close for me. The solution is simple, I hold my ground and let others move in front of me, which surely meets most requirements. The real offenders are the ones who appear from nowhere and barge in just as the music begins.

I'm sure anyone who's been to more than a handful of proms witnesses some real set-tos in the arena, or in the queue. I think part of the problem is that the stewards are usually quite young and don't have the authority to sort people out. Twenty years ago this sort of thing happened a lot less. I recall a concert a couple of years ago where two people were eyeball to eyeball throughout an entire piece because someone pushed in. All very entertaining, as long as you're not involved.

[Petrushka]

I'm sure anyone who's been to more than a handful of proms witnesses some real set-tos in the arena, or in the queue. I think part of the problem is that the stewards are usually quite young and don't have the authority to sort people out. Twenty years ago this sort of thing happened a lot less. I recall a concert a couple of years ago where two people were eyeball to eyeball throughout an entire piece because someone pushed in. All very entertaining, as long as you're not involved.

I was just feet away from a punch up in the Arena in 1985 at a Tennstedt Prom during the Mozart Jupiter. The stewards did nothing to intervene and I had a go at one of them in the interval expressing my annoyance at having the music ruined. The fracas was on the front row and, incredibly, there is nothing to indicate anything wrong in the recording of that very performance on a BBC Legends CD. Get some clowns recording on their mobile phones and the stewards are down on them like a ton of bricks.

[PhilipT]

The real offenders are the ones who appear from nowhere and barge in just as the music begins.

That is indeed a common occurrence, but not what happened in this particular case. Here we had seasoned prommers who had done their queuing and were in their rightful places but refused to stand up when asked.

I think part of the problem is that the stewards are usually quite young and don't have the authority to sort people out.

Indeed (and that is an excellent description of the redcoat at Door B steps for the St John Passion, who was doing that duty for the first time, unsupervised), but again, not what happened in this particular case. Here the steward was a bluecoat who was prepared to argue.

[kernelbogey]

Complete Mahler Symphony Cycle

Would anyone care to suggest a suitable set of all Mahler of which to make a (80th birthday) present to my brother, who does not have very hi hifi, and who would be perfectly content with a version that is not 'the latest thing'? With or without Das Lied, or the Tenth. (Mid price preferred.)

Many thanks

kb

[Beef Oven!]

Complete Mahler Symphony Cycle

Would anyone care to suggest a suitable set of all Mahler of which to make a (80th birthday) present to my brother, who does not have very hi hifi, and who would be perfectly content with a version that is not 'the latest thing'? With or without Das Lied, or the Tenth. (Mid price preferred.)

Many thanks

kb

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Mahler-Symphonies-Leonard-Bernstein/dp/B005SJIP1E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504804303&sr=8-1&keywords=Mahler+bernstein

The Sinopoli DG set has gone up in price a fair bit, so I would recommend the Bernstein. Excellent remastered sound quality and a great partnership between the NYP & the incomparable Lenny.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Ma...hler+bernstein

Inexplicably, no Das Lied, but I think this is still the best Mahler Cycle to be had - not a duff performance/recording in the set, and the Second, Third, Sixth, and Eighth are all as good as it gets.

[Bax-of-Delights]

I wonder if there's anyone here who, in their much younger Promming days, remember the Proms Premiere of the work with Stokowski and Janet Baker? ... She was absolutely glorious, as was soprano Rae Woodland. Luckily the broadcast was issued on CD ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv1HMlTU0R0

Hello,
Yes, I was there. I was 16 and it was my very first Mahler concert. The sound was ear-shatteringly overwhelming and the memory of that night has been etched on my memory ever since. And Stokey giving us an encore of the final chorus acclamation as well!

[Beef Oven!]

Inexplicably, no Das Lied, but I think this is still the best Mahler Cycle to be had - not a duff performance/recording in the set, and the Second, Third, Sixth, and Eighth are all as good as it gets.

Prompted me to spin #8 - agreed, up with the best

[kernelbogey]

Prompted me to spin #8 - agreed, up with the best

Very many thanks, Beefy and Fernie. You make me think perhaps I should go for two sets: one for him, one for me...!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very many thanks, Beefy and Fernie. You make me think perhaps I should go for two sets: one for him, one for me...!

Sounds a very good idea, indeed. kb