Prom 36 - 12.08.17: Schubert and Mahler

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:30 Saturday 12 August 2017
Royal Albert Hall

Franz Schubert: Symphony No 8 in B minor 'Unfinished'
Gustav Mahler: Symphony No 10 in F sharp minor (performing version by Deryck Cooke)

BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra
Thomas Dausgaard conductor

The BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra and Chief Conductor, Thomas Dausgaard, offer two contrasting answers to the problem of performing unfinished symphonies. Although Schubert started work on his Eighth Symphony nearly six years before his death, he never completed it and the two existing movements of this lyrical, proto-Romantic work are mostly performed without a scherzo or finale. Mahler's final symphony grapples with darkness and doubt in music of rare anguish and intensity. It is presented tonight in the performing version by Deryck Cooke, which allows us to hear the work complete, in all its knotty, generous invention.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In interesting idea to pair these two works together.

I would have preferred it if they had given both works equal treatment. There are are complete performing versions of both works, and it is known that Schubert sketched most of the 3rd movement. Whether or not you accept that the B minor Entr'acte from Rosamunde was originally intended as the finale, it does have a certain merit, and deserves to be heard as such from time to time.

[Goon525]

In interesting idea to pair these two works together.

I would have preferred it if they had given both works equal treatment. There are are complete performing versions of both works, and it is known that Schubert sketched most of the 3rd movement. Whether or not you accept that the B minor Entr'acte from Rosamunde was originally intended as the finale, it does have a certain merit, and deserves to be heard as such from time to time.

But it would have made for an overlong concert.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But it would have made for an overlong concert.

True, but we've had some very long concerts in recent years - Wagner operas and the complete Prokofiev piano concertos spring to mind.

[richardfinegold]

Dausgaard recording of the Mahler 10 is now my favorite

[jayne lee wilson]

In interesting idea to pair these two works together.

I would have preferred it if they had given both works equal treatment. There are are complete performing versions of both works, and it is known that Schubert sketched most of the 3rd movement. Whether or not you accept that the B minor Entr'acte from Rosamunde was originally intended as the finale, it does have a certain merit, and deserves to be heard as such from time to time.

Yes, it could do with revisiting couldn't it? Especially as Mackerras' original OAE/Virgin release was exceptional for its sound and performance (I recently bought the original CD 2ndhand - it's sonically stunning, c/w a brilliant 5th); and since Venzago has just released his own reading of the completed 8th (essentially the same but extended with more Rosamunde material in the scherzo and finale) and very fine it is. "The Finished "Unfinished"...

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/schubert-the-finished-unfinished-symphony-no-8-d-759-reconstructed-by-mario-venzago-kammerorchester-basel/0886446412306

Either version should be played more often.

[mozart79]

i'm lucky enough to be going to this

[BBMmk2]

In interesting idea to pair these two works together.

I would have preferred it if they had given both works equal treatment. There are are complete performing versions of both works, and it is known that Schubert sketched most of the 3rd movement. Whether or not you accept that the B minor Entr'acte from Rosamunde was originally intended as the finale, it does have a certain merit, and deserves to be heard as such from time to time.

I think this is a good partnership as well. Although I am not too sure of the "Home" key(if there ever was one in this work). Mahler certainly transcended musical thought in this masterpiece.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think this is a good partnership as well. Although I am not too sure of the "Home" key(if there ever was one in this work). Mahler certainly transcended musical thought in this masterpiece.

I'm not sure what you mean here, Bbm - the home key is very clearly F# major. Remember, this work is "complete", in the sense that there are sketches for every bar in the work, with no "empty" bars - it's "unfinished" in that scoring and texture gets sparer as the work prgresses; Mahler wrote the concluding plagal cadence in F# major just as Cooke gave us, but with no indication of instrumentation - the "spread" of the chords, the rhythms, and the dynamics are Mahler's.

[BBMmk2]

Thank you, Ferney. I think what I was getting at, is that with the progress of the work, Mahler's usage of musical structure transcended anything else he had done? Entering new ways of writing music?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Thank you, Ferney. I think what I was getting at, is that with the progress of the work, Mahler's usage of musical structure transcended anything else he had done? Entering new ways of writing music?

Harmony, certainly. Structure - I think that you're right; the palindromic structure of the five movements (two "slow-ish" outer Movements surrounding two Scherzos, surrounding a central "intermezzo") was something Bartok was fond of, for one. But "entering new ways of writing Music" is something we can say about each of the Symphonies - one of the things that keeps me as a Mahler fan. (And again makes me regret ever again the loss of the works he'd've produced in his sixties/seventies/eighties ... )

[BBMmk2]

Harmony, certainly. Structure - I think that you're right; the palindromic structure of the five movements (two "slow-ish" outer Movements surrounding two Scherzos, surrounding a central "intermezzo") was something Bartok was fond of, for one. But "entering new ways of writing Music" is something we can say about each of the Symphonies - one of the things that keeps me as a Mahler fan. (And again makes me regret ever again the loss of the works he'd've produced in his sixties/seventies/eighties ... )

Couldn't agree more! Mahler was very aware of the number 9. it was quite symbolic for him. I think he was quite anxious to go beyond that number. But, alas the frailty of his heart, proved the better of him.

[jayne lee wilson]

Interest here underlined by a point Threasher makes in September's Gramophone, that Dausgaard's Schubert 8 (i) is one of the fastest on disc (even more so than the fine Venzago under review), and of course his Seattle SO Mahler 10 was very enthusiastically recieved here and in many reviews (and as we've seen, made the final three for the G. Orchestral Award)...
I admire Dausgaard's Schubert and Schumann Swedish CO BIS recordings very much, if occasionally finding him almost too "direct", wishing he'd stop to admire the scenery a bit more...
How will the BBCSSO respond?

I've had to avoid Mahler recently, but I make occasional exceptions for the 4th and 10th. Lengthy concert, much coffee required. I'll see how it goes.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, it could do with revisiting couldn't it? Especially as Mackerras' original OAE/Virgin release was exceptional for its sound and performance (I recently bought the original CD 2ndhand - it's sonically stunning, c/w a brilliant 5th); and since Venzago has just released his own reading of the completed 8th (essentially the same but extended with more Rosamunde material in the scherzo and finale) and very fine it is. "The Finished "Unfinished"...

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/schubert-the-finished-unfinished-symphony-no-8-d-759-reconstructed-by-mario-venzago-kammerorchester-basel/0886446412306

Either version should be played more often.

I haven't heard this one - only the Abrahams and Newbould versions.

[bluestateprommer]

Very briskly paced rendering by TD and the BBC SSO of the Schubert, with a slight touch of relaxation at the end. Some bits in the second movement at the quick pace did threaten to become a gabble. Overall, tight ensemble from the orchestra. I actually haven't heard much of TD's concerts with the BBC SSO in his 1st year as chief conductor.

PS, post-Mahler 10: JLW's comment about hoping that TD would 'stop to admire the scenery a bit more' also manifested itself in the Mahler at times as well, even though there were certainly more moments here where TD did take his time compared to the Schubert. I haven't heard TD's recent CD of Mahler 10, so I'm at a disadvantage to several folks here. A few notable brass blips here and there.