Prom 22 - 31.07.17: Monteverdi's Vespers

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I often wonder whether being a musician and/or highy musically educated can hinder appreciation of a given perfomance...

Well ... no more than being an Economist can hinder appreciation of a political speech, perhaps?

[DracoM]

Yes, actors / musicians are [IME] pretty hypercritical of their own performances.
This Vespers I found a bit relentless, as if they were trying very, very hard to strive and surprise in every other bar, and to that extent, the 'performance' at times actually got in the way of the music.
Sure as heck it more or less scrubbed out any sense of the liturgy that supposedly animated it, and made it into an operatic / madrigalist mosaic. Was that the intention? Many things to admire en passant - the instrumental textrures stole it for me - but in terms of performance, and I have more than several on CD - believe it or not I often go back to the Ian Partridge / John Elwes vinyls.

[underthecountertenor]

I often wonder whether being a musician and/or highy musically educated can hinder appreciation of a given perfomance...

... being neither, I just thought it was a great performance of a great piece (or pieces).

OG

I'd like to think that I am a musician, of sorts, and I have taken part in several performances of these Vespers. It didn't hinder my enjoyment in the least (I was in the Hall, towards the back of the arena). I agree with you that it was a great (to which I would add fresh and invigorating) performance of a great, er, oeuvre. The interpolated plainsong, especially that sung by the mezzo, was meltingly wonderful too.

[Richard Barrett]

I often wonder whether being a musician and/or highly musically educated can hinder appreciation of a given performance...

For people who devote their lives to music (whether as musicians or committed musiclovers, who don't have to be "highly musically educated") there's often more at stake than for others, more things that can mar a performance but also more things that can enhance it. There's a kind of frustration too that arises from having a clear personal idea of what a piece of music should sound like, based on study/previous experiences/imagination, but at the same time asking of a particular performance that it gives you something more, that is to say something different and simultaneously the same... I found this particular performance involved far too many singers. It's chamber music which would almost certainly have been first performed, complete or piecemeal or whatever, at the ducal chapel in Mantua where such large forces weren't available and wouldn't have fitted into the venue if they had been.

[Nevilevelis]

I'd like to think that I am a musician, of sorts, and I have taken part in several performances of these Vespers. It didn't hinder my enjoyment in the least (I was in the Hall, towards the back of the arena). I agree with you that it was a great (to which I would add fresh and invigorating) performance of a great, er, oeuvre. The interpolated plainsong, especially that sung by the mezzo, was meltingly wonderful too.

Ditto!

[BBMmk2]

A thoroughly enjoyable prom, last night. This ensemble I hope will go from strength to0 strength. I am surprised, too that the Beeb didn't have cameras there. Especially with this vibrant group and also Monteverdi's masterpiece in his anniversary year.

[Nevilevelis]

I often wonder whether being a musician and/or highy musically educated can hinder appreciation of a given perfomance...

... being neither, I just thought it was a great performance of a great piece (or pieces).

OG

I absolutely agree. I have performed this work and edited it, and although I had a few qualms with tempi, accidentals and performance practice (regarding the high-clef/chiavette mvts), it was a terrific performance - near to perfectly calibrated for that elephantine venue - and one which will remain in the memory for many years to come.

NVV

[MrGongGong]

Testing out some new Genelec speakers (sadly not going to be able to keep them for long ) at home by listening to this
which was rather wonderful indeed
A great performance and no problems with the stream at all

[Bryn]

Testing out some new Genelec speakers (sadly not going to be able to keep them for long ) at home by listening to this
which was rather wonderful indeed
A great performance and no problems with the stream at all

I had no problems with the Concert Sound stream. It was the binaural stream which was disrupted during the first 15 minutes or so.

[jean]

What on earth was that fiercely syllabic Lord's Prayer doing at the beginning?

[Pulcinella]

What on earth was that fiercely syllabic Lord's Prayer doing at the beginning?

So that's what is was!

I wonder if ts got a programme which will tell us.

[bluestateprommer]

What on earth was that fiercely syllabic Lord's Prayer doing at the beginning?

There was a comment during the intro to the effect (I'm sure I'm misquoting; need to listen again) that there doesn't seem to be a single definitive performing edition of the Monteverdi 1610 Vespers. Extrapolating from this, this gives conductors and performers some room to experiment, so to speak. From his review on The Arts Desk, Bernard Hughes alludes to your question indirectly:

"The music itself spans a wide range, from polyphonic choral writing, to madrigal-like vocal textures and passages of almost operatic solo writing. To this mix Pichon added a further element: the interstitial plainchant that would have been expected in liturgical performances in Monteverdi's time."

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/prom-22-review-pygmalion-pichon-%E2%80%93-theatrical-take-monteverdis-vespers

While the 'Pater Noster' at the start, in a literal sense, wasn't "interstitial" (since it was at the start), presumably that was in the spirit of interweaving additional passages.

[jean]

Thanks.

But

While the 'Pater Noster' at the start, in a literal sense, wasn't "interstitial" (since it was at the start), presumably that was in the spirit of interweaving additional passages.

there's nothing preceding 'Deus in adiutorium meum intende...' at Vespers!

Bernard Hughes writes (in your link)

all the plainchant passages were taken at a crawling pace. While this worked in places – such as at the beginning – it was surprising, given the inventiveness evident elsewhere, that there wasn’t any diversity in approach here.

For me, it didn't ever work.

And it was surprising, as France probably has the liveliest plainsong tradition.

[Richard Barrett]

What on earth was that fiercely syllabic Lord's Prayer doing at the beginning?

Quite.

[Nevilevelis]

As far as I could tell, the plainsong (throughout) was sung according to the principles found in Giovanni Guidetti's Directorium Chori (1582/1589/1604) compiled after the Renaissance traditions already in use. http://reader.digitale-sammlungen.de...067_00111.html

I am not aware that this approach is used in French churches today. It is how the chant would have been sung in seventeenth-century Venice. Personally, I wouldn't have sung it quite so slowly.