Prom 21 - 30.07.17: Beethoven – Symphony No. 9, ‘Choral’

[Bryn]

You'll have to ask someone who doesn't love and admire it as much as I do...!

(Pity that my local taxi-service uses the first two phrases of the 9th's scherzo as its driver-callsign... but at least it didn't happen today, serenaded down to Sainsburys by Steve Miller and Gerry Rafferty.. ..oh, you know the ones....)

I'd have to put a great deal of effort into finding something in the 9th objectionable, and I have no intention of wasting my time with such a vain project. That said, I have had my hackles risen over the odd stretched out Adagio molto e cantabile.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I'd have to put a great deal of effort into finding something in the 9th objectionable, and I have no intention of wasting my time with such a vain project. That said, I have had my hackles risen over the odd stretched out Adagio molto e cantabile.

Adagio molto means "very slowly".

[cloughie]

Adagio molto means "very slowly".

Yes and too often it is played tbq!
...and Bryn if you look hard enough it has a fourth movement which probably isn't totally pleasant!

[jayne lee wilson]

I'd have to put a great deal of effort into finding something in the 9th objectionable, and I have no intention of wasting my time with such a vain project. That said, I have had my hackles risen over the odd stretched out Adagio molto e cantabile.

In case it wasn't clear.... it's not the wonderful scherzo of the 9th that I find objectionable in a taxi, but the distinct possibility of the musical thrill of it being worn out by so many repetitions....!

I love and admire the Beethoven 9th unreservedly - as one the greatest, most all-embracing, most inspired, most innovative symphonies of all time... if anyone "finds fault" with any part of it, they might ask themselves why it had such a profound and lasting influence on so many of the greatest composers - Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler among them. Bruckner's wonderful symphonies would have sounded very different if Beethoven's 9th had not existed, or if he had not known it; similarly with Brahms' 1st, and his subsequent development away from it...

The choice of the Ode to Joy as the EU anthem; members of UKIP turning their backs on it in the European Parliament; Igor Levit causing trouble, division and debate by playing it as his encore to a recent Prom..... all seem joyfully true to the timelessness - the eternal contemporaneity of its rebellious, joyful, shout-out-loud, uncontrollable spirit.

I think "lovely lovely Ludwig Van" as Alex DeLarge called him in A Clockwork Orange, would have enjoyed it all hugely....

[bluestateprommer]

From a spot check of the Proms Archive, if I'm not mistaken, this upcoming Beethoven 9 Prom may be the first LvB 9 Prom led by a maestra. Besides the latest 'choral novelty' from Sir James MacMillan in the first half, the fact that Xian Zhang will be the first woman conductor for an LvB 9 Prom already puts this Prom in the history books.

[Petrushka]

I love and admire the Beethoven 9th unreservedly - as one the greatest, most all-embracing, most inspired, most innovative symphonies of all time... if anyone "finds fault" with any part of it, they might ask themselves why it had such a profound and lasting influence on so many of the greatest composers - Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler among them. Bruckner's wonderful symphonies would have sounded very different if Beethoven's 9th had not existed, or if he had not known it; similarly with Brahms' 1st, and his subsequent development away from it...

The choice of the Ode to Joy as the EU anthem; members of UKIP turning their backs on it in the European Parliament; Igor Levit causing trouble, division and debate by playing it as his encore to a recent Prom..... all seem joyfully true to the timelessness - the eternal contemporaneity of its rebellious, joyful, shout-out-loud, uncontrollable spirit.

I think "lovely lovely Ludwig Van" as Alex DeLarge called him in A Clockwork Orange, would have enjoyed it all hugely....

My feelings also, though better expressed than I could hope to do. Quite why people have a problem with this symphony (or at least its finale) is beyond me.

[BBMmk2]

I will never forget a prom of this, going way back, when I was a youngster, Erich Leinsdorf was conducting and I think Hans Sotin was one of the singers. I didn't appreciate the who the artists were back then, but oh, to go back in time and see this would be great!

[Darkbloom]

Symphony of Psalms in first half?

Yes mediocre by BH standards thought not as dire as the Davis. I think the BBC orchestra were a crusty bunch especially towards the end of a season.

Yes, that's the one. John Tom was the bass soloist. I'm glad I'm not the only one to have had bad memories of the Davis, in fact it put me off live Ninths for a while after that. Nelsons made me realise again how great it can be live three years ago before Gilbert ruined it again with the Gewandhaus.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My feelings also, though better expressed than I could hope to do. Quite why people have a problem with this symphony (or at least its finale) is beyond me.

In my darkest moments, I would listen to this work with the score in front of me and be totally involved from start to finish. The clouds would always pass.

[Darkbloom]

I have vivid memories of a wonderful Ninth with Rattle and the CBSO. Birtwistle's Triumph of Time in the first half. I remember Willard White sticking his arm up in the air for his 'O, Freunde!' It was probably meant to be a vigorous declamatory gesture but it all looked a little 'hello, sailor' to me.

[Petrushka]

I have vivid memories of a wonderful Ninth with Rattle and the CBSO. Birtwistle's Triumph of Time in the first half. I remember Willard White sticking his arm up in the air for his 'O, Freunde!' It was probably meant to be a vigorous declamatory gesture but it all looked a little 'hello, sailor' to me.

I've been to all of the 9ths you so far mention! My favourite has to be either the 1987 Abbado or the 1996 Solti, both touched with greatness.

[Darkbloom]

I've been to all of the 9ths you so far mention! My favourite has to be either the 1987 Abbado or the 1996 Solti, both touched with greatness.

I envy you. The problem experiencing the Ninth in the arena ( more so than when seated) is that you instinctively 'know' whether the performance is going to work within the first few bars. When it's a dud you get a sinking feeling, knowing that this is going to be a long evening.

[Tony Halstead]

I envy you. The problem experiencing the Ninth in the arena ( more so than when seated) is that you instinctively 'know' whether the performance is going to work within the first few bars. When it's a dud you get a sinking feeling, knowing that this is going to be a long evening.

Hmmmm... I'm not too sure about that.. from my own experience, when I was playing on the Norrington / LCP recording, I certainly had a 'sinking feeling' in the first 8 bars or so, as the strings sounded so 'scrawny and unblended'. But, soon after that it did actually get better and better, and , IMHO, is probably one of a handful of really memorable and worthwhile recordings of this sublime work.

[cloughie]

In case it wasn't clear.... it's not the wonderful scherzo of the 9th that I find objectionable in a taxi, but the distinct possibility of the musical thrill of it being worn out by so many repetitions....!

I love and admire the Beethoven 9th unreservedly - as one the greatest, most all-embracing, most inspired, most innovative symphonies of all time... if anyone "finds fault" with any part of it, they might ask themselves why it had such a profound and lasting influence on so many of the greatest composers - Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler among them. Bruckner's wonderful symphonies would have sounded very different if Beethoven's 9th had not existed, or if he had not known it; similarly with Brahms' 1st, and his subsequent development away from it...

The choice of the Ode to Joy as the EU anthem; members of UKIP turning their backs on it in the European Parliament; Igor Levit causing trouble, division and debate by playing it as his encore to a recent Prom..... all seem joyfully true to the timelessness - the eternal contemporaneity of its rebellious, joyful, shout-out-loud, uncontrollable spirit.

I think "lovely lovely Ludwig Van" as Alex DeLarge called him in A Clockwork Orange, would have enjoyed it all hugely....

Jayne, if you'd said the Eroica I would agree with you, as that was the first big symphony, but for reasons I do not know as soon as the first voice comes into the finale I've a need for the off switch, and it's not just the fact there are voices in symphonies - Mahler 2,3 and 4 are fine, though after all these years I still don't get 8. i think the Eroica and Berlioz Fantastique* were the Symphonic milestones of the earlier C18th that led to the later Symphonic giants.
*They were two works on first hearing in my teens c1961/2 which made me go wow!

[jayne lee wilson]

Hmmmm... I'm not too sure about that.. from my own experience, when I was playing on the Norrington / LCP recording, I certainly had a 'sinking feeling' in the first 8 bars or so, as the strings sounded so 'scrawny and unblended'. But, soon after that it did actually get better and better, and , IMHO, is probably one of a handful of really memorable and worthwhile recordings of this sublime work.

Do you know Norrington's later SWR live one, Tony? It's a truly great one, stunningly well-recorded (German Radio SQ at its finest) with an unforgettable emotional and dynamic impact! WoW!