Prom 15 - 25.07.17: The Songs of Scott Walker (1967–70)

[Richard Barrett]

I'm not sure whether this is what people are discussing

I was saying that this kind of Scott Walker is emphatically not the sort of material that Cocker et al would dream of presenting at this Prom, which concentrates on the songs he wrote at the beginning of the long evolution towards "Epizootics" etc. I think it would have been rather fine to have traced that evolution through a concert, partly to show that a pop artist finding a successful formula is not necessarily a prelude to decades of bland stagnation...

[teamsaint]

I was saying that this kind of Scott Walker is emphatically not the sort of material that Cocker et al would dream of presenting at this Prom, which concentrates on the songs he wrote at the beginning of the long evolution towards "Epizootics" etc. I think it would have been rather fine to have traced that evolution through a concert, partly to show that a pop artist finding a successful formula is not necessarily a prelude to decades of bland stagnation...

And that is exactly what I would have thought would have given the event a decent chance of being a worthy reflection of his career- long achievements.

It would have been so much more interesting, both as a sort of documentary, and as an artistic examination of his development and achievements. The reason I couldn't be bothered to keep on listening ( and I'm glad by the way that Muzzer who was there did enjoy it), was because after three songs it seemed clear to me where this was(n't) going.

More importantly to me, there seem to me to be interesting questions about how a really worthwhile performance tradition for this music, and especially for his music of the last ten years or so, can develop, outside of the usual tribute band style. As Muzzer mentions, there are lot of people who are understandably keen to hear SW's music performed live, in creative and fitting ways. And the same point can I think be applied to Bowie's music now that he is no longer here to present it.
The Proms , with its slightly less urgent financial imperative than other venues and organisations, seems to me to be an ideal place to attempt to try to present music in new, different, and respectful ways, but the organisers seem stuck in a paradigm which dictates " Add a good orchestra, bring in a current celebrity who will sell tickets and let the publicity do the rest."
And I don't think that is good enough either for the music, or for the festival.

Just IMO, of course.

[french frank]

I think it would have been rather fine to have traced that evolution through a concert, partly to show that a pop artist finding a successful formula is not necessarily a prelude to decades of bland stagnation...

More than 'rather fine', I think it would more convincingly justify it being included as a Prom.

[Richard Barrett]

More than 'rather fine', I think it would more convincingly justify it being included as a Prom.

Indeed so.

[teamsaint]

Indeed so.

Can we all stop agreeing please ? It's unnerving.

[Richard Barrett]

It's unnerving.

No it isn't!

[teamsaint]

No it isn't!

That's better.....or is it......

( Not much interest in this Prom compared to some other similar events.)

[Maclintick]

Can we all stop agreeing please ? It's unnerving.

OK, I'll have a go. I didn't really find anything very appealing in last night's Prom, so I went on Spotify to get my lugholes round l'homme soi-même, as it were, & listened to the entire Scott 1 album. Not finding much of interest beyond similarly contemporaneous MOR easy-listening fare from the likes of Engelbert Humperdinck & Andy Williams, I wrote the experience off as time wasted or mis-spent. Should I now persevere with Scott 2,3,4 ?

[teamsaint]

Well, as a non expert on SW's music, I'd suggest a quick spin through a few things over the years to see where his music went , which might possibly pique your curiosity further.

The Old Man's Back again from Scott 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zgdGQB4S4

The Electrician from Walker Brothers Nite Flights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkppAwPba5g

Sleepwalkers Woman from Climate of Hunter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq36SxJ6OlM

Farmer in the City from Tilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJzTWk6bSw

Jolson and Jones from The Drift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fJ0_uWjMfk

Should give you an idea of the direction of travel, and whether you want to seek out more.

And if you have an hour and a half to spare to watch a documentary with spanish subtitles.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otOwSvs6BsU

Hope you find something of interest, Mac.

[muzzer]

I think the simple fact is that by the reactionary standards of 6 music the best chance there is of putting on this music live is by sticking to the late 60s period and yes getting in an orchestra and some guest singers. I'm aware of the irony. Where were the hipsters when SW was making these records? Looking elsewhere as hipsters always are, and as is their eternal tragedy. The later SW work is also arguably unperformable in any event, featuring more treated sounds etc. As ever with anything "popular" it would be great if the 6 music types were led into the deeper reaches of music hinted at by SW, and obviously some are, but from a purely artistic viewpoint I agree the prom was pretty tame. I refer m'learned friends again to the cringe fest that was the radio 3 / 6 music crossover day last year when it was all Mary Anne Hobbs could do not to ask Martin Handley if he'd heard of the Beatles. There is a real, to me hilarious, gulf between how true pop artists like Bowie and Scott Walker view and use pop culture, and the fawning uninformed bilge heaped upon them by presenters and pundits who supposedly know their stuff. Rant over. I still enjoyed the prom. I'm a sucker for sweeping moody strings.

[teamsaint]

Muzzer, it was good to hear that you enjoyed the Prom.
If you're going to perform late 60's SW, then the orchestra ( and they did sound good on the radio) is well worth throwing into the mix, or pretty essential really. (I'm a bit of a sucker for sweeping strings too, not least on Dusty Springfield records). The " problem " with it here as I hinted at is that it is part of a formula.Pet Shop Boys, the Stranglers ( god help us...yes what London Lady really needed adding was a full blooded string section.....)

Regarding the later period stuff, there were these concerts at the Barbican. I didn't go, and I can't recall the reviews, but an attempt was made.

https://www.barbican.org.uk/music/event-detail.asp?ID=7638

It sold out, so maybe there is hope for a repeat, or another concert or series at some point. It offers lots of opportunities for creative work, IMO.

[muzzer]

Oh I agree about the orchestra formula entirely. Lazy if done wrong. It's absurd that pop feels somehow ennobled by some of those fancy classical instruments playing it etc Noted re those Barbican gigs, I didn't go either. There is always hope, or at least we must always remain hopeful.

[Maclintick]

Well, as a non expert on SW's music, I'd suggest a quick spin through a few things over the years to see where his music went which might possibly pique your curiosity further.

The Old Man's Back again from Scott 4.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-zgdGQB4S4

The Electrician from Walker Brothers Nite Flights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkppAwPba5g

Sleepwalkers Woman from Climate of Hunter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq36SxJ6OlM

Farmer in the City from Tilt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIJzTWk6bSw

Jolson and Jones from The Drift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fJ0_uWjMfk

Should give you an idea of the direction of travel, and whether you want to seek out more.

And if you have an hour and a half to spare to watch a documentary with spanish subtitles.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otOwSvs6BsU

Hope you find something of interest, Mac.

Thanks, TS. Very kind, but these'll have to go some way beyond what I've heard in order to convince me of the Proms' description of SW as an "avant-garde contemporary musician", considering the 60s were a high-water mark of avant-garde-ism in music -- & of the arts in general. So far, so unextraordinary &, well, conventional...

[Richard Barrett]

Thanks, TS. Very kind, but these'll have to go some way beyond what I've heard in order to convince me of the Proms' description of SW as an [I]"[COLOR=#272727]avant-garde contemporary musician"

Take a look at the Youtube link given above by french frank.

[Conchis]

Thanks, TS. Very kind, but these'll have to go some way beyond what I've heard in order to convince me of the Proms' description of SW as an "avant-garde contemporary musician", considering the 60s were a high-water mark of avant-garde-ism in music -- & of the arts in general. So far, so unextraordinary &, well, conventional...

If you think his early stuff is MOR to be likened to Williams and Humpherdink/Dorsey, you should listen again. It is SUBVERSIVE easy listening, of the Jimmy Webb variety and in the 60s, he was working with some brilliant arrangers, who really seemed to understand what he was trying to achieve.