Originally posted by jayne lee wilson
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Prom 10 - 22.07.17: Aurora Orchestra – Beethoven’s ‘Eroica’
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Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostDo Androids Dream of Electronic Eroicas?I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!
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Originally posted by french frank View Post"Who shall decide when doctors disagree?"
But... the performance reminds me of why I value TTN so greatly. Whatever the idiosyncracies of the interpretation or playing, there is an immediacy to a live performance which comes across the ether, and which I assume to be the joint creation of musicians and audience. In this case, Garrulous Tom and his colleague with the baton (in case you missed/avoided the first part of Part One} persuaded the audience to sing parts of the first few bars of IV; and to clap some of the rhythms of part of I. I imagine this brought a special kind of sudience/orchestra rapport to the event. The applause at various points suggested this.
Anyone who was in the Hall prepared to comment...?
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Originally posted by Caliban View PostLawyers
But it is, in one way, instructive when knowledgeable people have diametrically opposed views on the experience - both the personal enjoyment and the quality of performance. I wonder how generally instructive that is …It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
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Originally posted by french frank View PostBut it is, in one way, instructive when knowledgeable people have diametrically opposed views on the experience - both the personal enjoyment and the quality of performance. I wonder how generally instructive that is …[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by french frank View PostBut it is, in one way, instructive when knowledgeable people have diametrically opposed views on the experience - both the personal enjoyment and the quality of performance. I wonder how generally instructive that is …
Me? I loved this exhilarating, energetic performance! Yes - listening on headphones to the i-Player recording - the Bassoon (and to a lesser extent, the Clarinets) were very "forward" - as if they were sitting right underneath a microphone, and this skew-whiffed the sound a lot of time: pp passages leapt out louder than mp moments. But the joy and energy - and the incredible detail - of the performance made this one that made the blood course around my veins shouting "WHEEEEEE"!!!!![FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Good to hear the performance has a few more fans - despite the over- prominent bassoon. I prefer fast tempi in this work rather than a sedate Klemperesque one . The 1st movt is Allegro Con Brio minim = 60 after all. I think there's a TV film which Rattle and orchestra , try it at that pace and , to their surprise , rather enjoy the result . I also think intonation is going to be a problem with minimum vibrato in a hot Albert Hall where , if musicians reports are to be believed , it's tricky to hear one another . I wasn't aware of huge problems on that score last night - or should I say any more than one would expect from a live HIP? Vibrato covers a multitude of intonation sins doesn't it? There were plenty on show the previous night with a wobbly Leonore and a flat Prisoner's Chorus.
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Originally posted by Heldenleben View PostI think there's a TV film which Rattle and orchestra , try it at that pace and , to their surprise , rather enjoy the result .
It's not just a matter of speed - articulation needs to be attended to, as well. Chailly takes the metronome mark at the nominated speed, but he sounds (to me) gabbled and inarticulate. The Aurorans got it exactly right, I thought.[FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostMe? I loved this exhilarating, energetic performance! Yes - listening on headphones to the i-Player recording - the Bassoon (and to a lesser extent, the Clarinets) were very "forward" - as if they were sitting right underneath a microphone, and this skew-whiffed the sound a lot of time: pp passages leapt out louder than mp moments. But the joy and energy - and the incredible detail - of the performance made this one that made the blood course around my veins shouting "WHEEEEEE"!!!!!
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Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View PostDepends what you mean by "instructive" - aside from matters of fact (say if someone claimed that the 'celli & Basses played out of tune: we can listen again and hear that this is simply not the case, and discount the comment), we decide for ourselves whether a performance was a valid presentation of what Beethoven has communicated in his score. In this case, all matters of "interpretation" can be seen to have their origin in the score - as such, it was a valid performance of the work. It can be "informative" and entertaining to read "diametrically opposed views" - but these merely demonstrate how scrupulous attention to the score, far from resulting in a single "mechanical" performance lacking individuality, instead leads to a rich variety of possibilities, from which we choose those which closest conform to our own ideas of the composer and the work. And this can be "instructive" about aesthetic possibilities and the richness of an Artistic experience, but doesn't necessarily enlighten us very much further about individual art works.
Me? I loved this exhilarating, energetic performance! Yes - listening on headphones to the i-Player recording - the Bassoon (and to a lesser extent, the Clarinets) were very "forward" - as if they were sitting right underneath a microphone, and this skew-whiffed the sound a lot of time: pp passages leapt out louder than mp moments. But the joy and energy - and the incredible detail - of the performance made this one that made the blood course around my veins shouting "WHEEEEEE"!!!!!
As for the "rich variety of possibilities" ... possibilities of what? If you mean "responses", then surely any performance, even a very creative, rubato-rich and subjective one, will also lead to such a range of responses...demonstrably so, in the history of Beethoven reviewing.
As I made clear, for me the performance did indeed lack expressiveness or "individuality" in the quicker movements much of the time. But I didn't simply choose that response - it is part of a rich inter-reaction, a give-and-take of my experience and memory of all the Eroicas I've heard (a very wide range sonically & interpretatively, including HIPPs recordings broadly similar in their approach to this Prom, but which I admire far more) and it is very far from my view of Beethoven or of his Symphony No.3.
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Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View PostAs I made clear, for me the performance did indeed lack expressiveness or "individuality" in the quicker movements much of the time. But I didn't simply choose that response - it is part of a rich inter-reaction, a give-and-take of my experience and memory of all the Eroicas I've heard (a very wide range sonically & interpretatively, including HIPPs recordings broadly similar in their approach to this Prom, but which I admire far more) and it is very far from my view of Beethoven or of his Symphony No.3.
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Originally posted by edashtav View Post
Tom is good with a script, without one he's awful.
On another matter, I haven't listened to the radio broadcast yet. Was there any audible evidence of a kerfuffle during much of Metamorphosen. A chap near me towards the back of the Arena keeled over about 10 minutes in. His partner shouted his name a couple of times, and the medical team quickly arrived. He was tended to on the spot throughout the remaining 15 minutes, with quite a lot of conversation as forms were filled in, many openings of velcro-fastened bags, and occasional loud outbursts from a walkie-talkie. The chap was heaved into a wheelchair during the final bars, and looked ok afterwards if a bit pale. I'm afraid that Metamorphosen went for nothing in the circumstances, as far as I was concerned. I'd be surprised if the high definition uncompressed feed, at least, didn't pick any of it up.
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