Prom 5 - 17.07.17: Sibelius, Rachmaninov and Shostakovich

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Give an opinion for those other forumites who were not able to hear a particular night's performance but let's all keep those comments fair and without prejudice.

Anyway, the Sibelius non-symphony was quite well handled (what more can you say about this misnamed work?)

that ghastly (but cleverly contrived) Birtwhistle piece

[Alison]

I certainly go along with the idea that Sibelius 7 isn't an ideal concert opener, something which seemed more than usually apparent last night. The Rachmaninov concerto perhaps not the ideal concert partner either. Good comments Maclintick.

[pastoralguy]

I certainly go along with the idea that Sibelius 7 isn't an ideal concert opener, something which seemed more than usually apparent last night. The Rachmaninov concerto perhaps not the ideal concert partner either. Good comments Maclintick.

What do you think of a concert featuring Sibelius 5, 6 & 7? I've heard it done twice and enjoyed both experiences.

(BBCSSO under Leif Segerstam and Die Berliner Philharmoniker under Sir Simon Rattle.)

[Alison]

I like those sort of programmes Pasty, especially with 7 at the end!

[pastoralguy]

I like those sort of programmes Pasty, especially with 7 at the end!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Interesting - the only time I've heard Sibelius #7 Live, it started the concert (RPO/Del Mar) and worked perfectly well there, I thought. It needs a complete change of mood to break the spell - (in the way that the miniature march disrupts the spell cast by the "Holy Song Of Thanksgiving on His Recovery from Illness" in Beethoven's Op 132) - and this it got on that occasion from the Schumann Piano Concerto (the only time, also, I ever heard John Ogdon ). Perhaps the problem (for some) here might be that the Rachmaninoff "shifts" the mood, rather than contrasts with it?

[Maclintick]

Another view....

https://bachtrack.com/review-prom-5-sondergard-abduraimov-bbcnow-july-2017

Another chance to hear Søndergård's Sibelius tonight of course, No.2.... I usually steer clear of it now, but was impressed enough with the 7th to be intrigued as to how he approaches such a different Sibelian vintage....

Yes indeed, but Andrew Morris's opinion diverges somewhat from that of the majority of boarders who have posted thus far, & who found BBCNOW/Søndergård's Sibelius 7 a little lacklustre & underpowered, while fulsomely praising their Shosta 10, & he rates the concert with a niggardly (?) 3 stars. Recognising that it'd be a boring old world if we all agreed... etc,etc, I still can't accept the notion that late Sibelius conforms to a "passive-contemplative" ideal in the face of cold/impersonal/majestic/Darwinian or whatever "Nature" one presumes to specify. Like Ed, I suspect, I hear a ruggedly confrontational aspect in Sibelius 7 & other late pieces -- "Man vs. Nature" (maybe his own ?). Must dash to catch tonight's....

[EdgeleyRob]

And not forgetting George Lloyd...

Champion's League pg.

[EdgeleyRob]

I'm 100% in agreement with you over the DSCH#10 Edgeley Rob.I hadn't realised that the historic 2 piano version is on YouTube and I shall follow that lead. Thanks very much.

Sorry Ed,forgot the link

[pastoralguy]

Champion's League pg.

[Barbirollians]

"We talk about it for 20 minutes and then we decide that I was right" - Brian Clough.

I can think of a few judges that this would fit

[Barbirollians]

Well - if you put Rachmaninoff in "the premier league", where do you put Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Stravinsky, Monteverdi, Schönberg, Dunstable, Handel, Lachenmann, Wagner, Brahms, Byrd, Ferneyhough, Bruckner, Gesualdo, Machaut, Hildegard, Barrett (just to name the most obvious)?

It might be "old-fashioned", but it's none-the-less true - and with a Premier League like that, being in the "Second Division" is no shame. (Nor, seeing that we're talking about Rachmaninoff, the Third, for that matter.)

One or two of your Premier League I would have in the Vauxhall Conference as it used to be called !

I am rather surprised to find any premier league that does not include Schubert, Mahler ,Dvorak, Chopin and Schumann.

[Barbirollians]

It seems to be a very difficult task to do justice to the Sibelius 7. Listening in the Arena last night I thought that there was a good performance in there struggling to come out. It all seemed sonorous but curiously blurred, and generally lacking in light and shade. Where was that wonderful sense of growth which the best performances have?

I first heard this symphony in Koussevitsky's famous 78 set in the Sibelius Society album. To this day when I hear the symphony I recognise all the side changes!

The Rachmaninov was accurately played but fairly routine. Sadly, nobody offered to clear my eye from a bit of soot from the train.

Things seemed much better in the Shostakovich, a very good performance.

Did anyone offer you one of those sinister looking buns under the glass dome ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I am rather surprised to find any premier league that does not include Schubert, Mahler ,Dvorak, Chopin and Schumann.

It wasn't meant to be entirely serious (footie isn't at all my "thing") - and somewhat off-topic - but certainly Schubert and Mahler should have been among the "most obvious" certainly. As should Janacek, Berlioz, and Mussorgsky. Chopin? Yes, alright (just - for the harmony), but I don't hear what criteria would "allow" Dvorak or even Schumann in with the really big names. It's getting silly now, though, isn't it?

[Barbirollians]

It wasn't meant to be entirely serious (footie isn't at all my "thing") - and somewhat off-topic - but certainly Schubert and Mahler should have been among the "most obvious" certainly. As should Janacek, Berlioz, and Mussorgsky. Chopin? Yes, alright (just - for the harmony), but I don't hear what criteria would "allow" Dvorak or even Schumann in with the really big names. It's getting silly now, though, isn't it?

Dvorak's Cello Concerto, the American Quartet, and his last three symphonies are definitely Premier League ! As are Kreisleriana , Kinderszenen and the Piano Concerto .