Prom 5 - 17.07.17: Sibelius, Rachmaninov and Shostakovich

[Bryn]

I have last night's Prom recorded on my cable TV Set (Channel 903 for Radio 3)
So I have set what is called a series link, which instructs my TV to record all the BBC3 Proms broadcasts which commence at 7.30pm. So, by the end of this season's Promenade Concerts, I shall have every one available to listen to at my leisure. Last night, at 9 o'clock, I listened to the Sibelius 7 and Rachmaninov 3rd Piano concerto.
No picture, of course, but quality sound, coupled with the TVs printed programe information.
PM me if you wish to know more.

Anyway, the Sibelius non-symphony was quite well handled (what more can you say about this misnamed work?) and I shall listen to DSCH No 10 this morning.

I have already listened to the two Elgar symphonies, that ghastly (but cleverly contrived) Birtwhistle piece and a nice taste of Mozart from Haitinck and the CEO.

Hornspieler

There was no performance of a work by Birtwhistle, either ghastly or superb. That the symphonic properties of Sibelius's 7th were not grasped is a problem of perception rather than something inherent in the composition. It sounded very much together to me.

[cloughie]

Well - if you put Rachmaninoff in "the premier league", where do you put Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Stravinsky, Monteverdi, Schönberg, Dunstable, Handel, Lachenmann, Wagner, Brahms, Byrd, Ferneyhough, Bruckner, Gesualdo, Machaut, Hildegard, Barrett (just to name the most obvious)?

It might be "old-fashioned", but it's none-the-less true - and with a Premier League like that, being in the "Second Division" is no shame. (Nor, seeing that we're talking about Rachmaninoff, the Third, for that matter.)

If you're talking Premier league and footballing analogies then most of those mentioned are 'sleeping giants'

[Ferretfancy]

I try my best.

It seems to be a very difficult task to do justice to the Sibelius 7. Listening in the Arena last night I thought that there was a good performance in there struggling to come out. It all seemed sonorous but curiously blurred, and generally lacking in light and shade. Where was that wonderful sense of growth which the best performances have?

I first heard this symphony in Koussevitsky's famous 78 set in the Sibelius Society album. To this day when I hear the symphony I recognise all the side changes!

The Rachmaninov was accurately played but fairly routine. Sadly, nobody offered to clear my eye from a bit of soot from the train.

Things seemed much better in the Shostakovich, a very good performance.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

If you're talking Premier league and footballing analogies then most of those mentioned are 'sleeping giants'

Pasto's post made me think of Accrington Stanley. I support Accrington Harry.

[pastoralguy]

And not forgetting George Lloyd...

Like Mahler, his time will come...

[Hornspieler]

There was no performance of a work by Birtwhistle, either ghastly or superb.

Okay, so it's Birtwistle

You like his offerings or you don't.

I don't - but I did think that Barenboim and the Orchestra coped very well with a difficult task.

HS

[Hornspieler]

It seems to be a very difficult task to do justice to the Sibelius 7. Listening in the Arena last night I thought that there was a good performance in there struggling to come out. It all seemed sonorous but curiously blurred, and generally lacking in light and shade. Where was that wonderful sense of growth which the best performances have?

I first heard this symphony in Koussevitsky's famous 78 set in the Sibelius Society album. To this day when I hear the symphony I recognise all the side changes!

The Rachmaninov was accurately played but fairly routine. Sadly, nobody offered to clear my eye from a bit of soot from the train.

Things seemed much better in the Shostakovich, a very good performance.

A very fair assessment IMV

HS (E OE)

[edashtav]

Well - if you put Rachmaninoff in "the premier league", where do you put Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Stravinsky, Monteverdi, Schönberg, Dunstable, Handel, Lachenmann, Wagner, Brahms, Byrd, Ferneyhough, Bruckner, Gesualdo, Machaut, Hildegard, Barrett (just to name the most obvious)?

It might be "old-fashioned", but it's none-the-less true - and with a Premier League like that, being in the "Second Division" is no shame. (Nor, seeing that we're talking about Rachmaninoff, the Third, for that matter.)

A firm, but fair, tackle, Ferney: the Ref, Bert Wistle, didn't blow.

[Rolmill]

In the hall, the performances (IMO) seemed to improve as the evening went on, though all were well played and none were less than good. I agree with Ferretfancy on the Sibelius, my reference performances are Koussevitsky and Maazel/LSO and last night's didn't achieve (or aspire to?) their sense of cumulative, organic growth. I felt the Rachmaninov started rather tamely but then got better with each movement, so that the last movement was exciting and earned the beautifully played encore. I enjoyed the Shostakovich very much, especially the solo wind contributions (excellent clarinet, flute and horn in particular) and the full-bodied string sound; the interpretation was an effective combination of expressive intensity, detailed attention to phrasing and powerful climaxes.

[peterthekeys]

Tonight's programme couples three of the better pieces by three of the 20th century's arch conservative composers.

Arch-conservative? Hmmmm. They're seen as conservative now, but they weren't in their lifetime. Sibelius' symphonies were seen as virtually reinventing and revivifying the symphonic form; Rachmaninov's first symphony also contributed to this (or would have done if it hadn't been buried by its disastrous premiere - it was only after the score had been reconstructed and the "second" premiere given that it was possible to see how far ahead of its time it was.)

The only problem (if it was a problem - I certainly don't view it as such) is that, in the face of extraordinary turmoil and conflicting views and styles, they stuck to their guns.

[teamsaint]

Couple of interesting thoughts from Vladimir Jurowski about Rach here

[BBMmk2]

Great concert last evening. And no speeches! Wonderful!

[edashtav]

Great concert last evening. And no speeches! Wonderful!

I'm glad it lived up to your expectations, bbm your enjoyment of music is admirable and infectious.

[Maclintick]

It seems to be a very difficult task to do justice to the Sibelius 7. Listening in the Arena last night I thought that there was a good performance in there struggling to come out. It all seemed sonorous but curiously blurred, and generally lacking in light and shade. Where was that wonderful sense of growth which the best performances have?

Things seemed much better in the Shostakovich, a very good performance.

Also my impression of this BBC NOW Sibelius 7 listening to the wireless last night - confirmed by a more attentive spin via I-Player this morning. Agree with Ed & FF's assessment of a muted & pallid overall effect with insufficient attention to Sibelius's careful dynamic gradations. I apologise for descending to specifics, but where were the swelling crescendi & decrescendi in the ominous chromatic string passage preceding the second appearance of the trombone theme at L ? (Donald Bannister done great, by the way, in all three trombonistical solos) or the ff before the presto 6 bars after W ? When JS writes an fff for the strings at the climactic largamente Z, against rfffz in the wind & brass, I think he really means it, but he didn't get it here.

It was all a tad careful -- unsurprising in the context of the band's first appearance at the RAH this season where they have to re-adapt to a tricky acoustic, as has been pointed out, but the conception was Søndergård's.

Didn't hear the DSCH 10, as I'm a bit Shostakovich'd out, but it was interesting to hear Marina Frolova-Walker at half-time say she was unconvinced by the the Testimony-inspired labelling of the second movt as a Stalin-Terror-Scherzo. Pre Volkov's tome I'd always imagined this hyperactive four-minuter as a wild Russian circus ballet of whirling Cossacks, dancing bears & fire-breathers, & was a mite disconcerted to find that I should have found it terrifying rather than exhilarating.....

[jayne lee wilson]

Another view....

https://bachtrack.com/review-prom-5-sondergard-abduraimov-bbcnow-july-2017

Another chance to hear Søndergård's Sibelius tonight of course, No.2.... I usually steer clear of it now, but was impressed enough with the 7th to be intrigued as to how he approaches such a different Sibelian vintage....