Originally posted by Petrushka
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I gave up when I could stand no more about five years ago. Fear not, Petrushka, the year seems just the same. -
Proms bores
It could be worse. Imagine if somebody were invited to shout out, "Arena to audience" seventy-five times a year, but forgetting that you're supposed to say something witty afterwards.Originally posted by Petrushka View PostComment
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There's only one caveat to my earlier comments. "Jerusalem" always makes me cry when performed like this (as it does my husband, a former British subject of the Colonies - Fiji). He used to sing this at school!! There's something ineffable about it and I go into protective mode about England whenever I hear it - and I'm Australian!! (My grandfather was from Wales.)
As an aside, I always used to tell my students in school that "my husband was born in Fiji and is a Fijian". That immediately engendered images about being a dark-skinned native wearing one of those skirts you sometimes see them in, and eating coconuts. They'd say "fair dinkum, miss?" and I'd say, "yes, I'll bring him in for show and tell"!!Comment
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It would also be nice if those doing the shouting were younger - as in previous decades. It was refreshing to see so many young people at the front of the arena for the Dudemal Prom yesterday. I hope they were not intimidated by the proprietorial regulars who seem to have taken over that part of the hall for the duration of the summer. They (and I hope I am allowed to say this, as someone of the same age-group) must come over as extremely off-putting, with their arcane lists of rules and regulations - not to mention the unchanging announcement about the charity collection.Originally posted by Ravensbourne View Post
(This will not be a popular posting, but I suspect many will silently agree.)Comment
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I first started going to the Proms in 1978 so there is a completely new generation of 'proprietorial regulars' there now but nothing much changes. Back in my early Prom years they were situated on the other side of the hall (by 'O' stalls) and at a 1985 LPO/Tennstedt Prom I witnessed a scuffle taking place as a Prommer was forcibly ejected from 'their' part of the Arena, not just once but a number of times as he tried again. All this happened while the music was being played and just a few feet away from Tennstedt. I spoke to a steward in the interval demanding to know why they hadn't intervened but all I got was the verbal equivalent of a shoulder shrug. A different generation it might be but I have never looked on the regulars in the same way ever since.
Previously the charity collection was done before the concert by means of collecting tins passed round the audience. A Prommer would keep an eye on where the tin was and call it down before the conductor came on. This was clearly unsatisfactory from every viewpoint and there were some close shaves with the tins not coming down in time. What happens now is definitely better but it does mean that those Prommers who do the collecting at the doorways have to leave the Arena the moment the applause breaks out thus missing any encores. Agree that the nightly shouted message is tedious but I'm not sure how much more effectively the charity collection can be done unless the RAH staff take it on themselves but then this would remove it from being a Prommer's initiative which is the whole point really."The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard HaitinkComment
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All this reminiscing reminds me that I must get my DVD transfer of 'The Prommers' documentary, circa 1998?, off the shelves to see many familiar faces from the front row regulars - many now in a world elsewhere - as a memory of my Promming years, from 1958. I'm always glad to view the Last Night ritual, a timely reminder of the passing years which still touches the heart, despite the Hooray Henry contingency.
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The Proms has been, for me, a Radio 3 (aka Third) event since my teens. But I could probably count my visits to the Hall with the fingers of maybe three or four hands' worth. The first ten of those visits when promming were to the gallery - out of some anxiety about the crush of the arena - and the 'rules'.Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
Two years ago I did queue for the arena and for the first time made it to about the second row at the front rail. A wonderful experience, but laced with a degree of anxiety about putting a foot wrong amongst the 'proprietorial regulars'.
In broadcasts, the shouting in the interval often strikes me as tedious - I know to whom I would like to say 'Heave - Ho' - and a rather ostentatious attempt to be part of the show on radio or tv as well as in the Hall.
As for the Last Night: I have never been and have avoided for years the broadcasts. I have a deep-rooted distaste for any kind of nationalism, and the jingoistic nature of the last night and audience antics have increasingly left a sour taste in my mouth.
I happened last night to look up Mark Elder in Wikipedia and was reminded of this:
At the time I fully applauded his stand.He first conducted the Last Night of the Proms in 1987. He was scheduled to conduct again in 1990, but his remarks about the nature of some of the traditional Proms selections in the context of the impending first Gulf War led to his dismissal from that engagement.Comment
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One of the best Last Nights (in my view) was the one conducted by Leonard Slatkin soon after a significant event (possibly 9/11) which made the usual jingoism inappropriate. The programme was redrawn and the result was calm and thought-provoking. I see no hope of any change while the Last Night has such appeal in the box office. Whether a public service broadcaster should give such prominence to the financial rather than the artistic is a subject above my pay grade.Originally posted by kernelbogey View PostComment
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Because of family circumstance I did not buy a season ticket this year, and have only managed half a dozen Proms so far.Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
I stand in the Arena only a short distance from the regulars you complain about. I wonder, what exactly are these arcane lists of rules and regulations ?
There was a time some years ago when the RAH management decreed that the front half of the Arena should have a line marked on the floor, season pass holders were allowed in front of this line, while day prommers had to stand behind. The prommers, including the regulars at the front, strongly objected on principle and the plan was scrapped.
Incidentally, there are two good reasons why the group at the front left of the Arena stand where they do, the first is that they are friends, the second is that they need to be able to leave quickly to go to their charity collecting stations.
Yes, disputes do occur, but they are not confined to the front rows. I have had a few dust ups myself, from my position about a third of the way back. There you are, the conductor is on the platform, and out of nowhere a seven foot giant pushes in front of you just as the first bars are heard.
This is the price we sometimes pay for the inexpensive privilege of hearing great music making at close range.
The charity collection will probably add up about £80,000 by Saturday, near enough my age in thousands.Comment
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Presumably they wouldn't sell it to so many other tv networks around the world...?Originally posted by VodkaDilc View PostComment
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... my normal reaction each time I hear of the Proms, and particularly of the 'Last Night' (if only! ... ) is that the Albert Hall shd receive a targeted nuclear strike reducing the building to rubble and glass, but leaving vultures to pick over any of those attending.
I am now more charitable : it is an interesting building, after all - if ill-suited to musical performance. So a neutrino bomb to annihilate all prommers (vultures still held in readiness) while retaining the building intact, for more sensible re-use as, I don't know, a Turkish Bath / library / bingo hall... The proceeds from which cd be used to construct a sensible concert-hall...Comment
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While agreeing with you over the Last Night and other more "popular" Proms, I have great affection for the building. The quirky acoustics are worth tolerating for the matchless atmosphere and location. Surely it's vastly preferable to, let's say, a soulless new concrete box in an inaccessible location a couple of miles further east.Originally posted by vinteuil View PostComment
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Sorry vinteuil, but I'm afraid neutrinos wouldn't do the trick as billions go straight through our bodies every day without us knowing it, and as far as I know nobody has succeeded in building a neutron bomb yet, so you may have a long wait. As for the Turkish Bath, well, they have improved the ventilation a bit!Originally posted by vinteuil View PostComment
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... thanks, ferretfancy - neutrons not neutrinos, of course. Must've been the extra glass of beaujolaisOriginally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
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