Prom 72: 8.09.16 - Staatskapelle Dresden, Christian Thielemann & Nikolaj Znaider

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:00 Thursday 8 Sep 2016
Royal Albert Hall

Ludwig van Beethoven: Violin Concerto in D major
Max Reger: Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Mozart
Richard Strauss: Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche

Nikolaj Znaider violin
Staatskapelle Dresden
Christian Thielemann conductor

The Staatskapelle Dresden and its Chief Conductor Christian Thielemann open their second Prom with Beethoven's most radiant, smiling work, his sublime Violin Concerto, in the sure hands of Nikolaj Znaider.

After the interval this famously rich-toned orchestra digs into Max Reger's affectionate and beautifully orchestrated Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Mozart and finally Richard Strauss's witty and abrasive depiction of an impish figure from German folklore, his outlandish tone-poem telling of 'Till Eulenspiegel's merry pranks'.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07sxtxb

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The good news: Strauss from Dresden and Thielemann.

The bad news: I fear I may be tarred with the BBC website's over-simplistic descriptions of works performed.

[Prommer]

Last time I heard the LBV VC at the Proms had Znaider as the soloist too - Colin Davis of blessed memory conducting. Part two was the Sibelius 2:divine. GMJO, I think...?

It was very fine. Znaider is a conductor too, so the dynamic with Thielemann will be interesting indeed.

[pastoralguy]

Quite looking forward to hearing this concert. I may mini-disc it for my collection!

[Tony Halstead]

19:00 Thursday 8 Sep 2016
Royal Albert Hall

Ludwig van Beethoven: Violin Concerto in D major
Max Reger: Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Mozart
Richard Strauss: Till Eulenspiegels lustige Streiche

Nikolaj Znaider violin
Staatskapelle Dresden
Christian Thielemann conductor

The Staatskapelle Dresden and its Chief Conductor Christian Thielemann open their second Prom with Beethoven's most radiant, smiling work, his sublime Violin Concerto, in the sure hands of Nikolaj Znaider.

After the interval this famously rich-toned orchestra digs into Max Reger's affectionate and beautifully orchestrated Variations and Fugue on a Theme by Mozart and finally Richard Strauss's witty and abrasive depiction of an impish figure from German folklore, his outlandish tone-poem telling of 'Till Eulenspiegel's merry pranks'.

Oh dear, I'm sure that 'digs into' is intended as a compliment but I fear that the 'cynical brigade' may very well view it as critical fodder..!

[pastoralguy]

Oh dear, I'm sure that 'digs into' is intended as a compliment but I fear that the 'cynical brigade' may very well view it as critical fodder..!

Either that or it's due warning!

[DracoM]

With Tom Service, 'more is not enough'. The gush and hyperventilating.............wearisome.

[ardcarp]

Nevertheless in the interval talk tonight, Tom Service did not manage to stifle Thielemann who spoke eloquently about his 'journey' as a conductor. I was impressed that at an early stage he had appreciated the necessity of a clear technique when directing even the most superb of orchestras, particularly so in the opera-house pit. This is very much at odds (and rightly so IMVHO) with the quote from another thread:

Let me tell you the two things that Schechen told me when I left after studying with him for two years. He said “first of all, don’t get married” (he’d been married six times), and the other thing was “if you have the music in your head you can turn round and wave your ass at the orchestra and they will play it”. That is to say, if you have it firmly in your head, if you know exactly what you want to hear - his German word was [word I didn’t catch] which [means] ‘ideal performance’. If you’ve got an ideal performance in your head you will find the gesture. When people talk about technique – you look at some of the most famous, most successful conductors (just think of Furtwangler for example)….

Ironic,BTW, that the quote is attributed to Edward Downes who was surely a clear and concise conductor.

Coming back to tonight's concert, fantastic playing all round. But the Reger (dug into or not) sounded very 'ordinary' compared with the Strauss that followed. Chalk and cheese, I know, but I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to hear that particular piece again. The 'variations' were just too obvious, maybe?

[Prommer]

Two encores last night: Bach from Znaider and then Lohengrin Act 3 prelude at the end.

[Keraulophone]

I was impressed that at an early stage he had appreciated the necessity of a clear technique when directing even the most superb of orchestras, particularly so in the opera-house pit... Ironic, BTW, that the quote is attributed to Edward Downes who was surely a clear and concise conductor.

Richard Strauss's conducting style comes to mind. Passing Thielemann's first test, he knew the music, certainly his music, and was respected as a conductor of the Austro-German repertoire of his day, though critics such as the American H C Schonberg have found some of his many recordings to be rather strict and charmless. As someone on these threads has pointed out, the work is done in rehearsal, so that there is little need either to 'wave your ass at the orchestra' or use extravagant gestures or demonstrative signals unless the conductor decides, in the moment of performance, to diverge from what has been prepared; eg Beecham tripling the length of the final chord of Brahms 2 to milk the applause. There will always be those personalities (I wouldn't necessarily call them showmen) like Bernstein and Mehta who are simply unable to follow Dr Strauss in a less-is-more approach, determined to 'inspire' those in front of them. They will no doubt continue to entertain audiences, but may confound, confuse or annoy orchestral and vocal musicians who might feel they have seen it all before, and it's not helping. As for Gergiev's toothpick baton, I just don't get it; perhaps he often has food stuck between his teeth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MUxlt9_lnQ - a superb performance [and rehearsal from 16'18] of Till Eulenspiegel with the VPO in 1944, the year RS celebrated his 80th birthday. The warm applause from the orchestra at the end [15'34] feels genuinely heartfelt. Last night's with the great Staatskapelle Dresden was also very fine, but it probably would have been the same with Thielemann sitting in the audience and the leader giving a few nods.

[johnb]

Ironic,BTW, that the quote is attributed to Edward Downes who was surely a clear and concise conductor.

I know nothing about the art of conducting but having seen conductors with such varied techniques as Haitink, Colin Davis, Gergiev, Barbirolli, etc I thought the comments he made were interesting. IMO he wasn't advocating an "anything goes" approach but was talking about something rather more subtle.

Anyway, for anyone who is interested this is the audio: https://app.box.com/s/93f8eeua2hq3ix9ukcxgv3chp65sj0oz

[ardcarp]

Thanks johnb.
Mirga G-Tyla (not this thread, I know) was was getting a lot of stick (groan) for looking 'amateurish'. A disgraceful slur if I may say so. But indeed, there are many different styles of conducting. For a well-known repertoire piece (say a classical symphony) it is not necessary to carve a boring traditional pattern in the air. One can simply emote at the players and get results. However when a new piece (such as Hans Abrahamsen; Let me tell you...London premiere) hits the music desks, players need to know where they are and above all where the first beat of each bar falls. Mirga handled this brilliantly, IMO, and the orchestra clearly knew the 'geograpphy' of the piece under her capable direction.

[Thropplenoggin]

...and the orchestra clearly knew the 'geography' of the piece under her capable direction.

Lovely phrase. I like the idea of a symphonic cartography and conductors navigating the orchestra.

[underthecountertenor]

Two encores last night: Bach from Znaider and then Lohengrin Act 3 prelude at the end.

Wagner's name was clearly visible on the stands of the first violins on the orchestra's first night, leading us to expect an encore that night (I couldn't quite see what the piece was). Thielemann clearly decided that enough was enough for one evening, and no encore was played.

[Prommer]

Wagner's name was clearly visible on the stands of the first violins on the orchestra's first night, leading us to expect an encore that night (I couldn't quite see what the piece was). Thielemann clearly decided that enough was enough for one evening, and no encore was played.

I assume there is no mention of Wagner at the front of the score of Bruckner's Wagner symphony? Just a thought.

I don't think they performed any orchestral encores elsewhere. slarty?