Prom 71: 7.09.16 Staatskapelle Dresden, Christian Thielemann and Daniil Trifonov

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:30 Wednesday 7 Sep 2016
Royal Albert Hall

Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart: Piano Concerto No 21 in C major
Anton Bruckner: Symphony No. 3 in D minor

Daniil Trifonov piano
Staatskapelle Dresden
Christian Thielemans conductor

In the first of two Proms in which Christian Thielemann displays his credentials as an interpreter of the Austro-German repertoire, he focuses on Bruckner's Third Symphony, the composer's symphonic monument to his idol Wagner - a monolithic memorial that feels at the same time intimate and personal.

Before that, one of the most sought-after of today's pianists, Daniil Trifonov, is the soloist in Mozart's Piano Concerto No. 21.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07sxtbm

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ah, Bruckner 3. One of Barbirolli's favourites (apparently). The Halle used to sell pocket handkerchiefs with JB's autograph, along with the first 4 notes of this symphony.

(Today's piece of useless information. )

[Tony Halstead]

Ah, Bruckner 3. One of Barbirolli's favourites (apparently). The Halle used to sell pocket handkerchiefs with JB's autograph, along with the first 4 notes of this symphony.

(Today's piece of useless information. )

Another 'piece of useless information' is that Robert Simpson was pretty sniffy about it in his book, much preferring 4, 5 and 6 before Bruckner arrived at his iconic masterpieces 7, 8 and 9.

The only time I have ever played #3 was at the proms in 1983 when for some reason the Philharmonia invited me to be their 'guest 1st horn' . The wonderful conductor was Lovro von Matačić.

I now think that the Philharmonia must have regretted the invite (to me, not von Matačić ) as they never, ever again asked me to play with them!

[Prommer]

And Thieleman's Proms debut... Could be quite something. He is a very fine Brucknerian.

[Nick Armstrong]

Looking forward to this very much - got tickets for this and the previous night... another Staatskapelle, mirror-image programme - and the exact same stalls seats, as luck would have it. Will be a fascinating opportunity for some direct comparisons (not least as hitherto I've had reservations about both conductors...)

[slarty]

Looking forward to this concert, I will be seeing it this coming Saturday at the Semperoper in Dresden, before all concerned begin their tour (Prague, Munich ect) which culminates at the proms.

[jayne lee wilson]

Another 'piece of useless information' is that Robert Simpson was pretty sniffy about it in his book, much preferring 4, 5 and 6 before Bruckner arrived at his iconic masterpieces 7, 8 and 9.

The only time I have ever played #3 was at the proms in 1983 when for some reason the Philharmonia invited me to be their 'guest 1st horn' . The wonderful conductor was Lovro von Matačić.

I now think that the Philharmonia must have regretted the invite (to me, not von Matačić ) as they never, ever again asked me to play with them!

That isn't quite fair to Dr. Simpson, whose analysis of the 1873 First Version of No.3 in the later edition of The Essence of Bruckner carries a very different assessment.

"In No.3, achievement was progressively maimed in successive versions...
"The first version of No.3 is a vastly better architectural conception than either of its [1877-8 or 1889] transformations...

"In 1873, Bruckner had quietly created the very scale toward which he had been working in the first two symphonies. there are uncertainties but in general the form is grand and calm, the steady momentum maintained with a spacious mastery that should astonish anyone familiar only with the clumsy fumblings and discontinuities of 1878 and 1889. Occasional improvements in orchestration and recomposition in the style of No.8 are no compensation for the loss of the great and basic virtue of a noble sense of musical movement, a majestic progression on a scale not previously attained."

The various Proms listings fail to specify which version (though the suggested 58' running time leads one to fear the complacent worst...), and now that the various versions exist in fully-authenticated and meticulously-prepared editions, there's no excuse for conductors to ignore them, or disguise laziness in blandishments about "we'll never really know..."
Happily, there are at least half a dozen fine recordings of 3/1873 now (including an excellent one from recent Proms debutante Simone Young, with the Hamburg PO).
And it is wonderful, very rewarding of close and repeated attention... (just stay away from 1889 while you get to know it!)...

[Petrushka]

I've probably bitten off more than I can chew and will be in London for a week from Sept 2 for what promises to be a sensational ending to the season. But, heck, you only live once, you can't take it with you, no pockets in a shroud and all that. It's serious expenditure we're talking here so I'm hoping the three top German orchestras (we had the fourth the other night) really deliver.

Greatly looking forward to it all. I've heard the Bruckner 3 & 6 on only one occasion each in the concert hall (both with the Concertgebouw) and I'm especially looking forward to the 6th.

[makropulos]

Another 'piece of useless information' is that Robert Simpson was pretty sniffy about it in his book, much preferring 4, 5 and 6 before Bruckner arrived at his iconic masterpieces 7, 8 and 9.

The only time I have ever played #3 was at the proms in 1983 when for some reason the Philharmonia invited me to be their 'guest 1st horn' . The wonderful conductor was Lovro von Matačić.

I now think that the Philharmonia must have regretted the invite (to me, not von Matačić ) as they never, ever again asked me to play with them!

What a fabulous concert that was - I remember it very well! Matačić was an amazing conductor, and your beautiful horn playing is there for all to hear on the BBC Legends release of the Bruckner.

[richardfinegold]

I've probably bitten off more than I can chew and will be in London for a week from Sept 2 for what promises to be a sensational ending to the season. But, heck, you only live once, you can't take it with you, no pockets in a shroud and all that. It's serious expenditure we're talking here so I'm hoping the three top German orchestras (we had the fourth the other night) really deliver.

Greatly looking forward to it all. I've heard the Bruckner 3 & 6 on only one occasion each in the concert hall (both with the Concertgebouw) and I'm especially looking forward to the 6th.

I 'm sure it will be a great week and as you said, you can't take it with you.
Somewhat OT, but given what appears to me as an outsider who has never been at the Hall that Bruckner in particular won't fare particularly well there? Doesn't the brass, so essential in AB, just get swallowed up?

[Nick Armstrong]

Somewhat OT, but given what appears to me as an outsider who has never been at the Hall that Bruckner in particular won't fare particularly well there? Doesn't the brass, so essential in AB, just get swallowed up?

On the contrary, Richard, over the years I've come to the conclusion that Bruckner fares especially well there - the brass come through just fine, and the acoustic seems (for once) just right for the spans, structures and silences of old Anton's orchestral pieces. The same applies to Sibelius, imo.

[P. G. Tipps]

On the contrary, Richard, over the years I've come to the conclusion that Bruckner fares especially well there - the brass come through just fine, and the acoustic seems (for once) just right for the spans, structures and silences of old Anton's orchestral pieces. The same applies to Sibelius, imo.

I think the vast space of the RAH is perfect for a Bruckner symphony ... it simply goes with the music!

There is also the added sense of the great man himself once having performed an enthusuastically-received recital on the organ there when he made his one and only trip to London. Apparently the organist-cum-composer was well-known beyond his own country for his brilliant improvisations on the instrument.

The RAH is the nearest thing to a shrine for UK Brucknerians, I suspect!

[Nick Armstrong]

There is also the added sense of the great man himself once having performed an enthusuastically-received recital on the organ there when he made his one and only trip to London.

Yes I always spare a thought for the fact that AB himself was once present in the same space

[P. G. Tipps]

That isn't quite fair to Dr. Simpson, whose analysis of the 1873 First Version of No.3 in the later edition of The Essence of Bruckner carries a very different assessment.

"In No.3, achievement was progressively maimed in successive versions...
"The first version of No.3 is a vastly better architectural conception than either of its [1877-8 or 1889] transformations...

"In 1873, Bruckner had quietly created the very scale toward which he had been working in the first two symphonies. there are uncertainties but in general the form is grand and calm, the steady momentum maintained with a spacious mastery that should astonish anyone familiar only with the clumsy fumblings and discontinuities of 1878 and 1889. Occasional improvements in orchestration and recomposition in the style of No.8 are no compensation for the loss of the great and basic virtue of a noble sense of musical movement, a majestic progression on a scale not previously attained."

The various Proms listings fail to specify which version (though the suggested 58' running time leads one to fear the complacent worst...), and now that the various versions exist in fully-authenticated and meticulously-prepared editions, there's no excuse for conductors to ignore them, or disguise laziness in blandishments about "we'll never really know..."
Happily, there are at least half a dozen fine recordings of 3/1873 now (including an excellent one from recent Proms debutante Simone Young, with the Hamburg PO).
And it is wonderful, very rewarding of close and repeated attention... (just stay away from 1889 while you get to know it!)...

Indeed ... Simpson was absolutely right, in my admittedly very amateur opinion!

Bruckner 3 is an absolute minefield with the three established versions on offer. As far as I know Thielemann uses the 1877 score which is somewhere in between the excellence of the first and the ruinous pruning which greatly weakens the final 1889 version.

I'm not a great fan of this conductor though I do not doubt his commitment to and great love of the music. His podium movements are horribly stilted and self-conscious and he takes an age to lower his baton at the end of a work.

Apart fom the unfinished Ninth, that does seem inappropriate whilst conducting a Bruckner symphony when surely spontaneous audience applause, inspired by a sense of triumphant joy, should erupt naturally at the finish?

[Nick Armstrong]

I'm not a great fan of this conductor though I do not doubt his commitment to and great love of the music. His podium movements are horribly stilted and self-conscious and he takes an age to lower his baton at the end of a work.

As mentioned earlier, I share some doubts. This concert will be a very good test of his quality, for me.

At least next week we will be spared the phenomenon which marred the last (only) time I saw him live - conducting Der Rosenkavalier at Covent Garden, yours truly being seated stalls front row centre about 3 feet behind Thielemann's right shoulder. The cologne / scent / aftershave he had on was extremely pungent, and great wafts would arrive in the Cali-nostrils with his various gestures Plus he seemed to have reapplied the same between each Act Almost made me gag, I recall....