Prom 68: 4.09.16 - Rossini: Semiramide

[David-G]

This was a fabulous evening. Very fine performance of a marvellous opera. There is an excellent review by Planet Hugill, I am very much in agreement with the points he makes:

http://www.planethugill.com/2016/09/the-minutes-simply-sped-by-almost.html

Bluestateprommer, I didn't notice any solo singers getting lost in the orchestral textures. I am curious where you were in the hall. I was in the stalls relatively close to the orchestra.

[King_Ouf_I]

Listen out for the "Banda", an on-stage band of unusual wind and brass instruments, which is a feature of this opera. It will be wonderful to hear this played on period instruments by the OAE.

Sadly, the programme omitted the names of the players in the Banda - pretty much the only criticism I can make of a wonderful evening. Oh, and scheduling a four-hour opera to start at 7pm on a Sunday, which meant a lot of early-leavers who had to get to last trains etc.

[jean]

...Barry Banks was impressive with the command of the role's taxing tessitura and gave a graceful account of Idreno's aria, when the character thinks he is going to get the girl...

But who does 'get' her? We're never told!

At the end there's no reason why she shouldn't go off with Arsace/Ninia, but he's just been through the traumatic experience of killing his mother, so a happy ending seems slightly inappropriate.

[David-G]

...Barry Banks was impressive with the command of the role's taxing tessitura and gave a graceful account of Idreno's aria, when the character thinks he is going to get the girl...

But who does 'get' her? We're never told!

At the end there's no reason why she shouldn't go off with Arsace/Ninia, but he's just been through the traumatic experience of killing his mother, so a happy ending seems slightly inappropriate.

Well, there might be a reason... I think (am I correct?) I heard the announcer on the R3 broadcast say that Azema was Semiramide's daughter. This would have considerable implications!

On the other hand I couldn't find any reference to this in the libretto, so R3 might have invented it. And I think I read somewhere that Azema had earlier been betrothed to Ninia (presumably in childhood?). This would imply that she wasn't Semiramide's daughter.

There seems to be some confusion about this important question. More research needed.

And, following the analogy of Orestes, there would seem to be considerable scope for further operas on the subsequent history of Arsace.

[jean]

...I think (am I correct?) I heard the announcer on the R3 broadcast say that Azema was Semiramide's daughter. This would have considerable implications!

I didn't hear that, but I see that both The Rough Guide to Opera and A Dictionary of Opera Characters assume that she was.

However, the accompanying booklet to the recording from the Pesaro Festival that I was using to guide me the other night makes no mention of it - she is a princess, a direct descendent of Baal, and her mother is not specified.

I did also find myself wondering whether the Ninus' tomb of Ovid and Shakespeare had anything to do with this one.

[vinteuil]

wiki seems to regard her as a princess, ancella ('handmaiden') to Semiramide

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramide_(Rossini)

.

The English wiki page is informative, but doesn't solve this pertickler question -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiramide

From what I was able to hear of this, i'm very much looking forward to the studio recording I gather they're doing.

[jean]

I did also find myself wondering whether the Ninus' tomb of Ovid and Shakespeare had anything to do with this one.

And so it proves.

Ninus (Greek: Νίνος), according to Greek historians writing in the Hellenistic period and later, was accepted as the eponymous founder of Nineveh (also called Νίνου πόλις "city of Ninus" in Greek), ancient capital of Assyria. His name is not attested on the Assyrian King List or in any cuneiform literature; he does not seem to represent any one personage known to modern history, and is more likely a conflation of several real and/or fictional figures of antiquity, as seen to the Greeks through the mists of time.

But here's the interesting bit , for our purposes:

The figures of King Ninus and Queen Semiramis first appear in the history of Persia written by Ctesias of Cnidus (c. 400 BC), who claimed, as court physician to Artaxerxes II, to have access to the royal historical records.[1] Ctesias' account was later expanded on by Diodorus Siculus. Ninus continued to be mentioned by European historians (e.g. Alfred the Great), even up until knowledge of cuneiform enabled a more precise reconstruction of Assyrian and Babylonian history from the mid 19th century onwards.

He was said to have been the son of Belus or Bel, a name that may represent a Semitic title such as Ba'al, "lord".

So as the libretto does make it clear that Azema is a daughter of Baal, if that's through her father's line, she would indeed be Ninia's sister.

Pyramus: Wilt thou at Ninny's tomb meet me straightway?

Thisbe: 'Tide life, 'tide death, I come without delay.

(Ninny's tomb, indeed! The indignity!

[David-G]

This would appear to be the relevant line of Ovid: "Pyramus and Thisbe, he the loveliest youth, and she the most sought after girl, the East held, lived in neighbouring houses, in the towering city of Babylon, that Semiramis is said to have enclosed with walls of brick".

Which would appear to be pretty definite!

It is rather gratifying to have encountered two "Ninny's Tombs" in a week. (The other being A Midsummer Night's Dream at Glyndebourne.)

(Note - I posted this before reading your last.)

[David-G]

So as the libretto does make it clear that Azema is a daughter of Baal, if that's through her father's line, she would indeed be Ninia's sister.

Ah, but we have to remember that Assur is also a descendant of Baal. I suppose he could be another brother, but would he really want to marry his mother? Perhaps we should suppose that Baal had quite an extended family. So I am inclined to the thought that Azema was not a sister and so could have married our hero, but (mixing my myths) I imagine that like Orestes he would be pursued by the Furies, so "happy ever after" they probably were not.

[jean]

This would appear to be the relevant line of Ovid: "Pyramus and Thisbe, he the loveliest youth, and she the most sought after girl, the East held, lived in neighbouring houses, in the towering city of Babylon, that Semiramis is said to have enclosed with walls of brick"...

I would urge anyone with a little Latin to read Ovid's original - it's delightful. The story starts at line 55:

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/ovid/ovid.met4.shtml

It's also very clear how well Shakespeare knew his source, though there are touches he does not reproduce. I especially like l.74ff where Pyramus upbraids the Wall 'How much was it that you would allow us to be joined along our whole body? Or if that's too much, that you would be open to the giving of kisses? Not that we're ungrateful, you understand...!'

(Sorry, desperately off topic)

[vinteuil]

He was said to have been the son of Belus or Bel, a name that may represent a Semitic title such as Ba'al, "lord".[/url]

So as the libretto does make it clear that Azema is a daughter of Baal, if that's through her father's line, she would indeed be Ninia's sister.

... but "Baal" here means the deity, doesn't it? Tho "Baal" seems to cover a multitude of things...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baal_Berith

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beelzebub

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadad

[David-G]

I think Baal here does indeed mean the deity. It's a bit like Aeneas being the son of Venus.

[jean]

The deity? Your monotheism as showing!

The question is whether, in a polytheistic system, 'Baal' signifies only one deity, like 'Venus', or whether it is a generic name for any number of different deities, as some sources appear to suggest.

.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The deity? Your monotheism as showing!

Not cessenarily - if one wishes to distinguish which Andrew Mitchell one was referring to, one might legitimately add "the actor", without any suggestion of monothespianism. This usage was how I read vinty's comment in #26 and David-G's in #27.

[jean]

Your analogy only works if someone is suggesting there's another Baal who isn't a god.