Prom 63: 1.09.16 - Bach: Mass in B minor

[jean]

They were singing 'key' not 'qwee'..

I thought I heard 'kvee', at least from a soloist - that's very German!

Agnes dei...

That's German, too.

[ahinton]

"HIPP toothpaste"? (Would that be Haydn's Horn Signal Symphony?)

Nah. Choral B (minor), denture know...

[ahinton]

Just a quick Christmassy correction, Noel. It's Entresto.

Not in Brizzle, it isn't!...

[Padraig]

I wanted to be awed by Bach, as I was when I first heard the Mass in B minor. I appreciate the comments expressed and the knowledge demonstrated, but awed I was not.

[Pulcinella]

I wanted to be awed by Bach, as I was when I first heard the Mass in B minor. I appreciate the comments expressed and the knowledge demonstrated, but awed I was not.

Thanks, Padraig, for finding a way to express my own thoughts so succinctly.

[oddoneout]

I've been finding this thread quite thought provoking. Opinion is pretty divided about whether this was a 'good' performance or not, where 'good' boils down to whether one liked it or not I think, and then in some cases more detailed/specific/knowledgeable reasons for that like/dislike. That set me thinking whether it is preferable to have a performance which divides opinion in this way, suggesting as it does some element of individuality/idiosyncrasy on the performers,and therefore a greater risk perhaps of disappointment for some listeners, or whether pleasing more listeners but not necessarily exciting them(whether negatively or positively) is the better situation?
Other thoughts/questions will have to wait or be set aside until my brain is functioning a bit better - or if you are lucky will never see the light of day.

[Tetrachord]

I have no reservations whatsoever about the sheer pleasure of hearing Les Arts Florissants/William Christie over many years and the monumental Mass in B Minor concluded a day of musical treats, albeit tired after an early autumnal resolution to tackle gardening chores, spurred on by musical memories. During the morning session, I set-up a further back-up DVD recording of Prom 84, 26 Aug; Collegium Vocale Gent, Budapest Festival Orch/Ivan Fischer, a Mozart programme of the Clarinet Concerto, K622, followed by an unforgettable Requiem - a dazzling compelling arrangement of musicians and performers with the advantage of subtitles. A break for supper before the evening Prom to end a day of near perfection. Browsing my collection of musical notes, I found an answer to the joy of music which matched my feelings last night:

'The source of each one's art, it seems to me, is profound and unending love - love for sounds and words and harmonies, love for the human voice, love for the world, love for whatever is beyond our sight and hearing, but moves within us anyway.' A satisfying antidote to tiresome academic nit-picking!

Beautiful last paragraph; what a pleasure to read it, and thank you very much!!! As I write I'm listening to JEG's BMM and the Gloria/Cum Sancto Spiritu. Ecstasy!!

Here's a less than favourable review of the Christie BMM:

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/prom-63-b-minor-mass-les-arts-florissants-christie

[jean]

But 'less than favourable' to the hall rather than the performance!

I found this bit interesting:

The choral voices likewise, more suited to Rameau than Bach, favoured an airy, easy delivery with minimal vibrato, and, while elegant, it lacked something of the Germanic grit that we got from their strongly accented Latin.

Which confirmed that they were attempting a German pronunciation of the Latin - but I would never have thought that an 'airy, easy delivery with minimal vibrato' wasn't suited to singing Bach!

.

[Tetrachord]

But 'less favourable' to the hall rather than the performance!

I found this bit interesting:

The choral voices likewise, more suited to Rameau than Bach, favoured an airy, easy delivery with minimal vibrato, and, while elegant, it lacked something of the Germanic grit that we got from their strongly accented Latin.

Which confirmed that they were attempting a German pronunciation of the Latin - but I would never have thought that an 'airy, easy delivery with minimal vibrato' wasn't suited to singing Bach!

"A bad carpenter...." as the saying goes! And I completely agree about the comment on accents being more suited to Rameau - same with the ornamentation!!

[jean]

But the accents used for the Latin wouldn't have been suited to Rameau - they were 100% German, as the reviewer points out!

I would agree about the ornamentation we heard though, whch he doesn't mention.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But 'less favourable' to the hall rather than the performance!

Exactly. Nearly every comment about the performance was glowing.

[Prommer]

But the accents used for the Latin wouldn't have been suited to Rameau - they were 100% German, as the reviewer points out!

I would agree about the ornamentation we heard though, whch he doesn't mention.

Clearly I need new ears! Will listen again.

[jayne lee wilson]

Reviewing the varying responses here, I can only reiterate my disappointment that "professional" reviewing virtually ignores webcasts or broadcasts now. Before FM was spoiled by DRC and overwhelmed by the multiplicity of digital platforms, Ed Greenfield, William Mann and others would find it perfectly good to assess a Prom at home that way. Some would even attend the live concert, then compare a recording or repeat of it later, often preferring the sound at home as a more accurate representation.
(Perhaps someone here could take up the challenge via HDs iPlayer...)


Online magazines all seem to compete for the quickest, broadest, globally in-hall coverage which may offer the benefit of many opinions, but can lack depth or insightful evaluation of how the music was actually played...

Not to mention the fact that many more of us will have heard the concert at home than in person!

[ardcarp]

Listening on a small radio away from home, it was not possible to get any inkling of how well the unusual coupling of Les A/F and the RAH came over to those present. It was not a comfortable experience for me save for some excellent wind playing (trumpeters fantastic) and the counter-tenor solos. Tempi seemed odd and not altogether steady, and there was surely some untidiness in the choral ensemble. So probably Marmite.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't know what evidence there is to encourage toothpaste dynamics in baroque music. We had plenty in this performance of the B minor Mass from the orchestra. The final item on Sunday morning's Breakfast was from Couperin's Quatre Verset. The solo singer was squeezing toothpaste on virtually every note.

It must have taken years of practice to sound so mannered.