Prom 63: 1.09.16 - Bach: Mass in B minor

[Nick Armstrong]

I have only heard the work live once before: King's College Chapel (1994?), CUMS Orchestra under (?) Cleobury but the standout was James Bowman... The Qui Sedes and Agnus Dei were exemplary singing. Almost showing off good.

My introduction to the piece was in the same place, c 1983. Overwhelming.

Didn't hear the broadcast and shall try and do so, esp. given the divergent views here.

[VodkaDilc]

A lovely evening. Everything was exactly right. Something radio listeners probably missed was the delightful sense of affection between conductor and all the musicians. Wonderful orchestral playing with outstanding soloists, especially woodwind and the solo violinist; Tim Mead sounded stunning, and the other soloists were excellent too (just a slight reservation about the tenor).

As someone has written, the sound seemed initially small in the RAH, but the ear quickly adjusted and the audience was eerily attentive.

[Tetrachord]

I was in the Hall and need to listen to the broadcast - and the commentary.

It grew on me, but in the Hall it initially underwhelmed in volume terms too, but that is the RAH for you, and this was not the 'Uddersfield Choral Society...

I was, of course, referring to JEG's earlier recording of the BMM and not his more recent version (which I haven't heard).

[oddoneout]

I think I basically agree with this assessment but did it have the punch and rhythmic elan of JEG?

Two different but valid ways with the music, perhaps..

And that's it in a nutshell as far as I can see. Personally I don't like JEG's way with things, especially his "punch and rythmic elan" , but wouldn't consider that those who do like it are wrong - just of a different opinion.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Personally I don't like JEG's way with things, especially his "punch and rythmic elan" , but wouldn't consider that those who do like it are wrong - just of a different opinion.

I do like JEG's Bach. He doesn't try to make a meal of every note, not squeezing it to sound like a tape being played backwards. That said, I thought Christie's performance was among the finest I've ever heard.

[Prommer]

One non-musical thing interested me: what turned out to be a family group arrived in the box next door.

They started shifting a bit uneasily after the first twenty minutes, one woman left (to go to the loo, having noticed no interval?), returned, started leaning over to chat to the man in front, and then began furiously fanning herself and looking rather hot and flushed. They all departed soon after.

Which begs the question: were they at the end of a long day trip, wanted to experience a Prom, and decided to round it off with a performance of a two hour Mass setting?!

If so, possibly a mistake...

They could, I suppose, have been disgruntled JEG-gers, appalled at the 'Frenchified' lyricism of this reading...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And that's it in a nutshell as far as I can see. Personally I don't like JEG's way with things, especially his "punch and rythmic elan"

... but wouldn't consider that those who do like it are wrong - just of a different opinion.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That said, I thought Christie's performance was among the finest I've ever heard.

- and I share your reservation/dislike about what I felt was an overuse of what should be an expressive device (a parallel with some other performers' unimaginative use of vibrato, in fact). It marred an otherwise wonderful performance.

[Nick Armstrong]

John Eliot Gardiner's Dona Nobis Pacem from this work is white hot and INCANDESCENT

I was, of course, referring to JEG's earlier recording of the BMM and not his more recent version (which I haven't heard).

If the Christie performance last night was different from that earlier JEG, then that can only be a good thing, for me I'm afraid. Your 'white hot and incandescent' is my 'hard-driven and soulless' - we must have different ears for this piece!

I think I basically agree with this assessment but did it have the punch and rhythmic elan of JEG?
Two different but valid ways with the music, perhaps.

And that's it in a nutshell as far as I can see. Personally I don't like JEG's way with things, especially his "punch and rythmic elan" , but wouldn't consider that those who do like it are wrong - just of a different opinion.

Exactly, and not for the first time I find myself in the oddoneout camp

[BBMmk2]

I quite like the way JEG does JSB! The tempi may be on a little fast side, perhaps, but brings out things that otherwise we may not have noticed before.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I quite like the way JEG does JSB! The tempi may be on a little fast side, perhaps, but brings out things that otherwise we may not have noticed before.

I find JEGger's tempi one of the more admirable features of his earlier recording of the B minor Mass (that and the instrumental timbres and textural balance) - and the singing isn't at all bad, either.

It's the relentless thumping of the Music that has become increasingly unpleasant for me over the years: it takes away the vigour of the Music - all the shading and chiaroscuro removed in the glaring spotlight of the conductor's third-degree approach to the work. His Live performances aren't this thuggish, and I'd probably find his more recent recording more enjoyable - but then there are other recordings that give me so very much total joy, and use forces I find closer to/better than how the Music sounds to me from the scores.

[jean]

...and the French 'qui'...

I thought it was a German 'qui'!

But definitely some French cadences and rhythmic touches, understandandable as Christie is based there, but Bach wasn't.

Wonderfully clear textures in the choruses, and Tim Mead outstanding. Only reservation that the Et expecto... wasn't as spine-chilling as I always hope it will be...

[Prommer]

I thought it was a German 'qui'!

They were singing 'key' not 'qwee', Agnes dei (nice girl) not arnyus dei. Or some of them were!

[Prommer]

Only reservation that the Et expecto... wasn't as spine-chilling as I always hope it will be...

Agreed. But they did that remarkable and exciting transition on 'mortuorum' really well.

[Stanley Stewart]

I have no reservations whatsoever about the sheer pleasure of hearing Les Arts Florissants/William Christie over many years and the monumental Mass in B Minor concluded a day of musical treats, albeit tired after an early autumnal resolution to tackle gardening chores, spurred on by musical memories. During the morning session, I set-up a further back-up DVD recording of Prom 84, 26 Aug; Collegium Vocale Gent, Budapest Festival Orch/Ivan Fischer, a Mozart programme of the Clarinet Concerto, K622, followed by an unforgettable Requiem - a dazzling compelling arrangement of musicians and performers with the advantage of subtitles. A break for supper before the evening Prom to end a day of near perfection. Browsing my collection of musical notes, I found an answer to the joy of music which matched my feelings last night:

'The source of each one's art, it seems to me, is profound and unending love - love for sounds and words and harmonies, love for the human voice, love for the world, love for whatever is beyond our sight and hearing, but moves within us anyway.' A satisfying antidote to tiresome academic nit-picking!