Prom 60: 30.08.16 - Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

19:00 Tuesday 30 Aug 2016
Royal Albert Hall

Johann Sebastian Bach: Cantata No 82, 'Ich habe genug'
Anton Bruckner: Symphony No 9 in D minor

Christian Gerhaher bass-baritone
Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester
Philippe Jordan conductor

Death laid its hand on Anton Bruckner as he laboured over the incomplete last movement of his final symphony. But as life was leaving Bruckner, vision and faith were only strengthening in him. Even in its incompleteness, Bruckner's Ninth carries with it an inspiring optimism in the face of death. 'Art had its beginning in God,' believed Bruckner, 'and so it must lead back to God.' Appropriate sentiments given that it is preceded by Bach's cantata of resignation and acceptance 'Ich habe genug' from the thrilling bass-baritone of Christian Gerhaher.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07qs3q8

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A solo cantata is certainly a useful economy measure, but to fill the RAH . . . ?

Interesting combination though.

[Barbirollians]

A solo cantata is certainly a useful economy measure, but to fill the RAH . . . ?

Interesting combination though.

Gerhaher is a great singer I am looking forward to this tonight .

[ahinton]

A solo cantata is certainly a useful economy measure, but to fill the RAH . . . ?

Interesting combination though.

It is.

If Alina Ibragimova could fill RAH with solo Bach (as she memorably did in the previous Prom season, despite the fact that it seemed improbable to me that this could work until I heard it with my own two ears), I see no obvious reason why a Cantata by the same composer couldn't do likewise.

Speaking of "filling", by the way, what a pity that, yet again, an opportunity is missed to "fill" out Bruckner's Ninth Symphony with the best available completion of its Finale! - and yet another instance in which a large RAH audience will depart after the concert having been short-changed at best and misled at worst. "'Art had its beginning in God,' believed Bruckner, 'and so it must lead back to God", indeed; somehow I don't think that the composer accidentally omitted the words "part way" between "lead" and "back"...

Without wishing to hold up the proceedings here, does anyone have any ideas as to why the completed Mahler 10 seems to have caught on almost exclusively whereas the completed Bruckner 9 somehow seems resolutely to refuse to do so, despite such advocacy as BPO/Rattle?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Without wishing to hold up the proceedings here, does anyone have any ideas as to why the completed Mahler 10 seems to have caught on almost exclusively whereas the completed Bruckner 9 somehow seems resolutely to refuse to do so, despite such advocacy as BPO/Rattle?

Possibly because the Cooke/Matthews/Matthews/Goldschmidt edition of the Tenth appeared at a time when Mahler's Music itself became a prominent feature of the concert repertoire. Before that time, Mahler performances (and, perhaps more pertinently to this discussion, recordings) were much rarer than they are today - the "Cooke" Tenth appeared alongside most people's earliest experiences of the other Symphonies: the First Movement on its own hadn't established itself as a "standalone" piece for the general public.

This is not the case with the Bruckner Ninth - at least, not yet. Before Rattle's recording of the completed Finale, there were dozens of recordings of the incomplete Ninth - many of them by conductors at least as impressive as Rattle. The concluding bars of the Third Movement have become imprinted as an extraordinarily moving conclusion to the work - hearing more Music after that demands a mental reconstruction of expectations and reactions that most people who go to concerts have not (or possibly, "cannot") yet made. The rewards of hearing the Music of the Finale, of hearing what the composer intended, do not immediately "come up to" the powerful emotional effects experienced when conceiving the end of the Third movement as "the end" - it's a change of attitude that even Rattle cannot enact.

I speak whereof I experience - my own change in attitude (by no means yet complete) has come from several listenings to the completed Finale on its own; trying to make up for lost time, if you will - getting to know that Music as well as I know the rest. As I result, I have reached the point where I find it extremely moving and powerful - but it's still an unpleasant (yes - that is the word) hearing it after the Third Movement for me. (It doesn't help that I don't exactly admire Rattle's approach to Bruckner in general - the earlier NAXOS recording of a less-completely-edition of the four-movement score works much better for me - a greater feeling at the end of the Third Movement that more is to come. Rattle sounds - to me - more like a performance of the Three-movement torso with a Finale pinned not-fully-heartedly onto the end.)

[BBMmk2]

I am sure Bach's music could fill the RAH, several times over. Looking forward to this Prom, very much. This will always remind me of the orchestra's founder, Claudio Abbado.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

PS - CD "splitting" of the work doesn't help matters, with the Finale on a separate disc from the accustomed three-movement work: it's easy to give into the temptation just to play the first disc. Recording companies would do the completion a favour by putting the First Movement on Disc One (with, say, the Te Deum before it) and the last three movements on the second.

But, of course, for younger listeners interested in such things, the very notion of a CD might seem rather quaint in itself - they will be listening to downloads not requiring a change of disc to interrupt matters. But I suspect that (like me) the majority of listeners so interested (the ones who are responsible for any "acceptance" of any completion) might not be as keen on downloads and still prefer the physical presence of the CD carrier.

[Bryn]

... - my own change in attitude (by no means yet complete) has come from several listenings to the completed Finale on its own; trying to make up for lost time, if you will - getting to know that Music as well as I know the rest. As I result, I have reached the point where I find it extremely moving and powerful - but it's still an unpleasant (yes - that is the word) hearing it after the Third Movement for me. (It doesn't help that I don't exactly admire Rattle's approach to Bruckner in general - the earlier NAXOS recording of a less-completely-edition of the four-movement score works much better for me - a greater feeling at the end of the Third Movement that more is to come. Rattle sounds - to me - more like a performance of the Three-movement torso with a Finale pinned not-fully-heartedly onto the end.)

Have you heard Harding in the most recent completion (LSO, Barbican last December), or his Swedish RSO radio recording of the immediately prior version of the SPCM completion? Might suit you better then his teacher's approach.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Have you heard Harding in the most recent completion (LSO, Barbican last December), or his Swedish RSO radio recording of the immediately prior version of the SPCM completion? Might suit you better then his teacher's approach.

No, I haven't - and yes, it might!

[Bryn]

PS - CD "splitting" of the work doesn't help matters, with the Finale on a separate disc from the accustomed three-movement work: it's easy to give into the temptation just to play the first disc. Recording companies would do the completion a favour by putting the First Movement on Disc One (with, say, the Te Deum before it) and the last three movements on the second.

But, of course, for younger listeners interested in such things, the very notion of a CD might seem rather quaint in itself - they will be listening to downloads not requiring a change of disc to interrupt matters. But I suspect that (like me) the majority of listeners so interested (the ones who are responsible for any "acceptance" of any completion) might not be as keen on downloads and still prefer the physical presence of the CD carrier.

Yeh but the Rattle recording is on a single 82 minutes 10 seconds CD. I recall that Rob Cowan waxed lyrical about the 2010 Carragan completion as conducted by Gerd Schaller.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

A solo cantata is certainly a useful economy measure

I'm not sure it is - you pay the plane tickets for the whole Youth orchestra and then just stick a third of it onstage for a quarter of the concert, adding the cost of a soloist? Be cheaper to do an orchestral work requiring forces similar to those Bruckner uses?

Interesting combination though.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yeh but the Rattle recording is on a single 82 minutes 10 seconds CD.

Blimey, is it??!!! (I have the download, so I hadn't noticed!) Right - scrub that argument.

I recall that Rob Cowan waxed lyrical about the 2010 Carragan completion as conducted by Gerd Scnaller.

I'll try not to let that prejudice me against it - but it will be difficult!

[Prommer]

Anyone? Missed it...

[Petrushka]

Anyone? Missed it...

The Bruckner was absolutely top notch, a very fine performance indeed with some superb playing especially from the brass. The broadcast sound (heard via Freeview) was excellent and a joy in itself.

Try and catch it on I-player.

[gedsmk]

The Bruckner was absolutely top notch, a very fine performance indeed with some superb playing especially from the brass. The broadcast sound (heard via Freeview) was excellent and a joy in itself.

Try and catch it on I-player.

the performance of the Bruckner was wonderful in the hall. What a fantastic orchestra! Three cheers too to the Proms Audience for respecting the silence at the end. Have not seen this conductor before - he is not afraid of the sacred silences in this piece, Deo Gratias.