Prom 31: 7.08.16 - Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky and Stravinsky

[Simon B]

The first half was pretty much lost to me again tonight for exactly the same extra-musical reasons as last night. (So despite the reduced level of comment here, we are covering the traditions - applause between movements and furious diatribes about those congenitally incapable of sitting or standing still or shutting up!).

However, the Rite - fast and loud enough to blot most things out:

Well, it seemed maybe a bit underehearsed and had a number of rough edges but was game enough to be entertaining. The big moments mostly came off and the bassoonist deserved the cheers.

The end however, well, it does help if one of the three absolutely vital players in the last 30 seconds doesn't get lost and start noodling mp in the hope of disappearing into the texture instead of belting it out with everything they've got. Not good!

Beat an evening in with the telly though :)

[Bryn]

... applause between movements and furious diatribes about those congenitally incapable of sitting or standing still or shutting up!

Two very different forms of behavious. Fidgets and chatterers/whisperers (during the actual music-making) can indeed be very annoying.

[seabright]

What Petroc did say at the end of the performance was that Kirill G had made the "World Premiere Recording of this edition." Wrong. It had already been recorded in 1998 by Andrei Hoteev and the Tchaikovsky Symphony Orchestra (formerly the USSR State Radio SO, also known as the Moscow Radio Symphony in the west) under Vladimir Fedoseyev, as per this link. Get your facts right, BBC! ...

http://en.tchaikovsky-research.net/pages/Piano_Concerto_No._1:_Recordings

[peterthekeys]

Perhaps you simply like your Tchaikovsky Bowdlerised.

Or maybe I'm just not keen on that concerto any more (I used to like it. But then, there were quite a few things that I liked once, before R3 started pumping them out over and over again ad nauseam)

As regards applause after the first movement - I've performed multi-movement works myself (I did the Scriabin third sonata a few years ago) - and all I can say is that if I'd received a sycophantic smattering of applause after the first movement, it would have put me off my stroke big time. Fortunately, my audience was better behaved

[Bryn]

What Petroc did say at the end of the performance was that Kirill G had made the "World Premiere Recording of this edition." Wrong. It had already been recorded in 1998 by Andrei Hoteev and the Tchaikovsky Symphony Orchestra (formerly the USSR State Radio SO, also known as the Moscow Radio Symphony in the west) under Vladimir Fedoseyev, as per this link. Get your facts right, BBC! ...

http://en.tchaikovsky-research.net/p..._1:_Recordings

I think you will find that this particular edition of the 1879 version was only published last year, and tonight's pianist was indeed the first to record it, being granted permission to do so in advance of its publication. This is the new critical edition. That recorded by Hoteev was made prior to the work on the critical edition. So, the BBC did get its facts right.

[peterthekeys]

However, the Rite - fast and loud enough to blot most things out:

Well, it seemed maybe a bit underehearsed and had a number of rough edges but was game enough to be entertaining. The big moments mostly came off and the bassoonist deserved the cheers.

I thought it was basically a fine and committed performance, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I particularly admired the detail (one of the first times I've heard the effect at the start of "the glorification of the chosen one" where S asks the tam-tam player to scrape the thing with a triangle beater.)

(BTW - whenever I hear the Rite now, I can't avoid thinking of "Riot at the Rite", the dramatised documentary of the lead-up to the premiere, culminating in a full-scale reconstruction of the first performance, with Nijinsky's choreography, and all the boos, whistles and catcalls: one of the most amazing pieces of television which I've ever seen. I notice it's on YT - highly recommended: it's worth seeing if only for the moment where the Chosen One is chosen, and how it's done.)

[Flay]

"Riot at the Rite", the dramatised documentary of the lead-up to the premiere.

Thanks for that, peter

https://youtu.be/JcZ7lfdhVQw

[Treehorn]

(And of course there's that delightful Proms custom of a smattering of lukewarm applause after the first movement - ugh! I always wonder if it annoys the performers as much as it annoys me.)

No, it doesn't annoy us. At least, it doesn't annoy me. When it's called for by a grand ending, as heard in the Tchaikovsky Violin concerto on Friday or the Piano concerto last night, it's very welcome. It also sounds strange to hear a big finish and then 'knowledgeable' silence. It's a natural break, the soloist has just completed a mammoth opener, any applause there is justified.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

No, it doesn't annoy us. At least, it doesn't annoy me. When it's called for by a grand ending, as heard in the Tchaikovsky Violin concerto on Friday or the Piano concerto last night, it's very welcome. It also sounds strange to hear a big finish and then 'knowledgeable' silence. It's a natural break, the soloist has just completed a mammoth opener, any applause there is justified.

Ah, yes. The same justification used when ballet dancers performa a spectacular feat. Who is then the arbiter of when it's OK to interrupt the silence? I'll tell you. Those who think primarily of themselves.

[Bryn]

Ah, yes. The same justification used when ballet dancers performa a spectacular feat. Who is then the arbiter of when it's OK to interrupt the silence? I'll tell you. Those who think primarily of themselves.

http://slippedisc.com/2015/11/esa-pekka-salonen-i-dont-mind-applause-between-movements/

Note not only the headline comment from Salonen but also the early contribution from Leonard Slatkin.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

http://slippedisc.com/2015/11/esa-pe...een-movements/

Note not only the headline comment from Salonen but also the early contribution from Leonard Slatkin.

Most of the justifications made by contributors are made by those who want to go back to the olden days.

[Bryn]

Most of the justifications made by contributors are made by those who want to go back to the olden days.

What, when most of the works this issue relates to were composed by musicians who not only expected but delighted in such applause, even sometimes playing games with their audience by trying to trip them into precipitate expressions of approbation?

Seems to me you are just trying to justify your own denigration of those who do just what was expected by the composers.

Teffi's One of Us read in the interval of yesterday's afternoon Prom seems apposite to this issue.

[Bryn]

I think you will find that this particular edition of the 1879 version was only published last year, and tonight's pianist was indeed the first to record it, being granted permission to do so in advance of its publication. This is the new critical edition. That recorded by Hoteev was made prior to the work on the critical edition. So, the BBC did get its facts right.

However, Andrew McGregor did get it wrong when referring to last night's performance as going to be of the original version (this during the afternoon Prom at which the 2nd Concerto was performed).

[Lento]

From a purely aesthetic point of view, I find the spread chords at the beginning have a slight whiff of the pub piano, but it seems to be what the man wrote!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

What, when most of the works this issue relates to were composed by musicians who not only expected but delighted in such applause, even sometimes playing games with their audience by trying to trip them into precipitate expressions of approbation?

Seems to me you are just trying to justify your own denigration of those who do just what was expected by the composers.

Teffi's One of Us read in the interval of yesterday's afternoon Prom seems apposite to this issue.

Hedonism in all cases. A desperate need for adulation, even at the expense of the music. And I really don't give a fig about what long dead composers expected.