Prom 18: 29.07.16 - Mahler: Symphony no. 3

[french frank]

Mahler 3 is about 95 minutes, isn't it? But it was in the programme as 7:00-8:55 and finished two minutes early, and BH did not take long breaks between movements. Was he observing some repeats most conductors don't, or what?

It was billed as being 101 minutes, without stating, obviously, on what basis that timing was calculated.

[Zucchini]

Mrs Flay could not cope with it

At least she and I can look at people with confidence, knowing that our street cred is intact ...

[Bryn]

It was billed as being 101 minutes, without stating, obviously, on what basis that timing was calculated.

From the first chord to the moment just milliseconds before the precipitate yell at the end, the timing was 106' 27". I was pleased to note that Bernie observed the at least 1 minutes pause between Parts 1 and 2.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I was pleased to note that Bernie observed the at least 1 minutes pause between Parts 1 and 2.

The TV editor thought otherwise.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I was constantly distracted by the inevitably awful ADHD camera work: the constant movement, zooming in to the fingernails or BH's nostril hairs, then suddenly a view from the back gallery. For once why can't they show whole sections and for more than a few seconds?

In order to do this, roving ADHD camera operators move around the hall, possibly distracting players and audience alike.

[bluestateprommer]

Can anyone tell me where all the time went? Mahler 3 is about 95 minutes, isn't it? But it was in the programme as 7:00-8:55 and finished two minutes early, and BH did not take long breaks between movements. Was he observing some repeats most conductors don't, or what?

Most of the time went into the first movement, in a manner of speaking. BH's timing of the 1st movement ran ~37:15, several minutes longer than most accounts, including at least two of his own for Philips:

1983 Kerstmatinee, Concertgebouw: 32:45
1991 Berlin Philharmonic: 34:50

There was a relatively lengthy break after the first movement in last night's Prom for re-tuning. Also, time-wise, movements 2-3 did feel more spacious than usual. So the longer time built up, and I suspect caught the TV folks off-guard. Had the performance been 1-2 minutes shorter overall, that would have left more time for the applause to be shown, with lots of cameras on BH to give him his closeups during the credits. I certainly wasn't expecting such a spacious Mahler 3 in advance, so I can't blame anyone else for not expecting it either. (IMHO, the 7:00-8:55 time bookends that PhilipT mentioned do not refer only to the music alone, i.e. 1st note to last, but rather to the "whole package" time, tuning and applause pre-, and applause post-. I also don't believe that there are any "repeat or not" options in the score, but I will defer to folks who have actually performed the work and thus know it from actual performing experience.)

BTW, David Nice has his review at The Arts Desk here:

http://www.theartsdesk.com/classical-music/prom-18-mahlers-third-symphony-lso-haitink

DN noted, as did ER here, that this performance certainly wasn't note-perfectly flawless. Agreed from this side of the pond. But then for mental historical comparison, I heard one of BH's CSO performances just about 10 years ago, and that evening, even Christopher Martin cracked a top note on one of his solos. A close thing at one or two brass moments in this Prom, but nothing quite so damaging. But as Simon B commented rightly, even with flaws (I suspect the "Yeah!" doofus is the same doofus who yelled after Ray Chen's Bruch 1 the other night - we all know what needs to be done with said doofus, but we can't say it in public), a terrific night at The Proms.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

(I suspect the "Yeah!" doofus is the same doofus who yelled after Ray Chen's Bruch 1 the other night - we all know what needs to be done with said doofus, but we can't say it in public), a terrific night at The Proms.

The situation has improved greatly in recent years. There used to be a tradition amongst cocky Prommers to compete to be the first to cheer at the end of any work - even Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony. Such crassness is rarer now.

Incidentally, I haven't heard the term "doofus" before, but I was brought up by a father who called me a "little duffer", which I take to be the same thing?

[Bryn]

... There was a relatively lengthy break after the first movement in last night's Prom for re-tuning. ...

Not just for re-tuning. A note at the head of the score calls for a long pause after Part 1 (the first movement).

[EdgeleyRob]

So have you, with your 9,999 posts! Manage another for this old cricket scorer's satisfaction?

How is that

[Bryn]

The TV editor thought otherwise.

Indeed, they excised just over a minute of the pause.

[Bryn]

The situation has improved greatly in recent years. There used to be a tradition amongst cocky Prommers to compete to be the first to cheer at the end of any work - even Tchaikovsky's 6th Symphony. Such crassness is rarer now.

Incidentally, I haven't heard the term "doofus" before, but I was brought up by a father who called me a "little duffer", which I take to be the same thing?

I have replaced the yell with a couple of seconds of ambient from just after the end of Part 1. Sounds much more like one might have hoped for.

[richardfinegold]

They all can, just so long as a 99 minute overburn CD-R is used. Most performances of the 3rd come in within that 99 minute limit. That's not the case with Bernie's of course.

Not to mention the fact that all of Mahler's Symphonies could potentially be stored on 1 Blu Ray disc

[Prommer]

How is that

Bliss!

But not out!

[PhilipT]

.. we all know what needs to be done with said doofus, but we can't say it in public ..

We can't do it either, now that there's no fountain in the Arena anymore.

[Petrushka]

A bit late to the thread but I attended last night's Prom and while it was a thrilling evening it didn't match up to the overwhelming 2004 BPO/Haitink Barbican account. The first movement lost something of it's wildness with the chosen speed but Haitink knows everything leads up to that tremendous climax in the final movement, here paced and built up to perfection as it is in every Haitink account I've heard.

A search of the Concertgebouw Archive reveals that Haitink was performing the Mahler 3 as long ago as March 1958 an astonishing record that surely cannot be equalled.

I've yet to see the TV broadcast, which I recorded to DVD, but will in any case record the radio repeat on Tuesday.

I was sitting in G stalls and the large camera swooping and swinging was a major distraction. So too (and probably not audible on the relay, was the amount of coughing and other noises off going on. There was an undercurrent of small coughs every few seconds (mostly the same person?) plus dropped programmes and the like that just irritate.