Prom 17: 28.07.16 - Roger Norrington conducts Berlioz, Beethoven and Brahms

[Ravensbourne]

A singing, ringing fortepiano

Opening with a widely-spread chord on his singing, ringing fortepiano, ...

Could someone explain what a singing, ringing fortepiano is?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Could someone explain what a singing, ringing fortepiano is?

One made in the former East Germany and played at teatime to terrify West European schoolkids?

[edashtav]

Could someone explain what a singing, ringing fortepiano is?

I imagine that Jayne Lee Wilson was being very complimentary to the soloist. Beethoven's 4th concerto demands a smooth legato line from the soloist at its beginning. There is a brightness to a fortepiano's attack; it's main issue is the quickness of its fade but with clever hands and a resonant acoustic, such as that in the RAH and unlike that in the RFH, a good forte pianist can create a lovely line, unfogged by a superfluity of overtones, hence ringing, singing. Furthermore, you have to read out loud Jayne's words:are they not onomatopoetic?

[jayne lee wilson]

Could someone explain what a singing, ringing fortepiano is?

Never heard the Paul McNulty copies of Walter fortepianos (c. 1795/1992) on Brautigam's Mozart recordings? Or the various Fritz and Walter instruments (some restored original 1800-1810, some 1996 copies by Poletti & Truinman) Arthur Schoonderwoerd uses with Cristofori in his Mozart and Beethoven concertos?

Listen and believe. You might find yourself singing along with them....

***

.(..anyway... so far i slept from 0330 - 0630... i really think i need some more now...)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There is a brightness to a fortepiano's attack; it's main issue is the quickness of its fade but with clever hands and a resonant acoustic, such as that in the RAH and unlike that in the RFH, a good forte pianist can create a lovely line, unfogged by a superfluity of overtones, hence ringing, singing.

They were generally called pianofortes even then, and they were about as musical as a Ford T. The sound of one of these tinny machines might well reach the front of the arena, but would struggle to make any impact on the greater distances of the RAH.

But I'm not allowed to say that.

Just as I'm not allowed to say that the SWR strings under Norrington sound whiny, thin and out of tune. Frau A and I were listening to the repeat yesterday. She doesn't have any of my accumulated prejudices on the issues, but as soon as the strings took over from the piano at the opening of the Beethoven concerto, she just said, "That sounds awful. Can you switch it off?" I couldn't disagree with her on that, though I switched to headphones through morbid curiosity.

I thought the interviews before the Beethoven were interesting - the woodwind player who was moving to a new orchestra, replying as diplomatically as possible to the question of imposed vibrato cancellation. Also the sickening cronyism of the pianist in relation to the conductor.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But I'm not allowed to say that.
Just as I'm not allowed to say that ...

Oh, you're "allowed" to say whatever you like, Alpie - "the world is flat"; "the moon is made of cream cheese"; "David Cameron is a Lithuanian woman": absolutely anything at all.

[Bryn]

Could someone explain what a singing, ringing fortepiano is?

Since Jayne has mentioned Brautigam's Mozart, I would refer you to his series of Mozart concertos on BIS. The cover illustrations start with the felliobng of a tree from which to build a fortepiano. fg tells the rest.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh, you're "allowed" to say whatever you like, Alpie - "the world is flat"; "the moon is made of cream cheese"; "David Cameron is a Lithuanian woman": absolutely anything at all.

I would never say any of those things. They're untrue.

[edashtav]

They were generally called pianofortes even then, and they were about as musical as a Ford T. The sound of one of these tinny machines might well reach the front of the arena, but would struggle to make any impact on the greater distances of the RAH.

Primarily, we're not talking about the reach in the RAH, although radio listeners depend on the Hall for its ambience. Fortunately, the electronic wizardry of broadcasting can recreate the sound of the smaller, more resonant halls of Beethoven's era, halls in which fortepianos would not have been silent partners. In the wrong setting / acoustic, Alpie, your reactions might be mirrored across a majority of the audience. Given a quality instrument in a supportive environment, I feel that a majority in an audience might disagree with you.

Ill-tuned strings are abhorrent particularly in the absence of vibrato. The rise of vibrato led to sloppiness re tuning; the fall of vibrato will lead to an eventual improvement in accuracy, once the slackers have been re-educated in the Tuning Boot Camp which has a statue of Sir Henry Wood holding his tuning fork at its exit.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Ill-tuned strings are abhorrent particularly in the absence of vibrato. The rise of vibrato led to sloppiness re tuning; the fall of vibrato will lead to an eventual improvement in accuracy, once the slackers have been re-educated in the Tuning Boot Camp which has a statue of Sir Henry Wood holding his tuning fork at its exit.

[Richard Barrett]

they were about as musical as a Ford T

Makes you wonder why Haydn and Mozart went to the trouble of writing all that music for them. They must have been a pair of tone-deaf idiots, don't you think?

[Richard Barrett]

One made in the former East Germany and played at teatime to terrify West European schoolkids?

A prominent instrument used in the soundtrack thereto was the Trautonium, which I guess relates to today's electronic keyboards somewhat as the fortepiano does to the "modern" piano.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I would never say any of those things. They're untrue.

But that doesn't mean that anyone is "not allowed" to say them - but as statements, they are as "untrue" and, indeed as silly as are "tinny machines" "as musical as a Ford model T" and "whiny strings", of course. (Frau Alpie's taste and discernment is usually impeccable, of course - we need only consider her choice of life partner to demonstrate that - but on this occasion, it was ... peccable. )

[ahinton]

but on this occasion, it was ... peccable

Qui tollis 'n' all that?...

Whilst it admittedly only a side issue to the discussion of - er - shall we say keyboard stringed instruments from up to some time during the first half of the 19th century, it remains true that the changes in piano design since a few years after the deaths of Liszt and Alkan have been considerably less than had occurred during the 19th century as a whole, which might seem somewhat odd given the kinds of development in piano writing that have taken place since the beginning of the last century; that's not to say that there have been none, of course, but the modern Steinway Model D is not as different from an early 20th century one as that is from the instruments for which Haydn, Beethoven and Schubert wrote.

[jayne lee wilson]

Some of the RAH-inhall reviewers said that Robert Levin was playing "a concert grand" and peering at the pictures again, I see it wasn't a fortepiano after all. Which makes the sound he drew from it even more remarkable. Enlarging the picture, I can just make out Steinway on it. It might be the the Steinway D that Brautigam uses for his Beethoven Concerto set. Doubtless the lid being taken off completely helped, and the unusual positioning.

If anyone has a programme from the concert, the instrument's details might be in there... I'd love to know.